Let us discuss HOLY

by Terry 57 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry
    Terry

    Ever searched for Nostalgia items, collectibles or antiques on Ebay, Craig's List or some such venue?

    A lot of junk has become valuable with the passage of time.

    Yes, Junk.

    Gradually it seemed to gather a mysterious inflation of valuation.

    The items themselves receive wear and tear but they way they are REGARDED takes on an almost awesome patina of wonderful.

    Now, what EXACTLY is going on?

    I'll give you an example.

    I loved to play cowboy when I was a young kid; especially gunslinger/fast draw style.

    My favorite guns were made by Stallion. They cost about five bucks.

    That was in the 1950's.

    On Ebay you have to pay up to FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS to get one!

    I think the same thing happens with ordinary writings. Like Paul's letters.

    They are just passed around.

    But, over a stretch of time..........they BECOME (yes...they are infused) HOLY.

    It is the attitude of people that "changes" the ordinary.

    The Bible stories were just tales.

    They BECAME Holy.

    It is what people THINK and FEEL which makes the magic happen.

    Food for thought.

    (P.S. You can't buy original autograph manuscripts of the Bible on Ebay....NONE exist because they had no VALUE in atuality OR somebody would have fought to preserve them. They were just more STUFF at one time.)

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Terry needs to expand his reading a bit.

    The concept of holiness is universal across cultures and times. To deny this part of our experience is to deny part of our humanity.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2tX99ODVDQ

    BTS

  • acolytes
    acolytes

    Terry

    I once thought the most stupid thing I was told was" That their are no badly written books only badly read books"

    I now thing this was one of the most wise things I have ever been told.

    I think its the same with items from our past. The passage of times gives a greater appreciation and the nostalgia gives great value.

    I look around my living room and its filled with art. Most dont appreciate the paintings. (Modern abstruct)It would be incomprehensible to many that they are of financial value. I would hate to die and the paintings end up destroyed.

    Acolytes

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    You can't buy original autograph manuscripts of the Bible on Ebay....NONE exist because they had no VALUE in atuality OR somebody would have fought to preserve them. They were just more STUFF at one time.

    Please. The Christian church, very early on, went through priods of vicious persecution where people were giving their lives to retain biblical manuscripts. Doesn't it seem more likely that the originals failed to survive the persecutions than that people who were willing to die for the Word of God decided they were of no value and used them as kindling?

  • Terry
    Terry

    You can't buy original autograph manuscripts of the Bible on Ebay....NONE exist because they had no VALUE in atuality OR somebody would have fought to preserve them. They were just more STUFF at one time.

    Please. The Christian church, very early on, went through priods of vicious persecution where people were giving their lives to retain biblical manuscripts. Doesn't it seem more likely that the originals failed to survive the persecutions than that people who were willing to die for the Word of God decided they were of no value and used them as kindling?

    There were countless writings by innumerable persons foisting their opinions off as heavenly and nobody paid any attention. For good reason.

    It was all crap.

    Of course you will believe what supports your own view. However, the persecution of one Christian group visiting intolerance upon another one was as great as the external Roman pressures.

    The rather obvious fact is that NOTHING has ever been preserved that is HOLY per se. Lots of fakes appeared to be sold to the naive.

    The original tablets of Moses? Gone.

    The jar of manna? Gone.

    The Ark of the Covenant? Gone.

    Noah's Ark? Gone. (I know, I know...it is perpetually "disocovered" and lost again by charlatans.)

    The "true cross" was conserved by Helena (Constantine's mother) and yet--it is gone.

    The Pope has a splinter of it in his ring.....wink wink...nudge nudge!

    There are knuckle bones of Saints, the Shroud of Turin and other ridiculous objects of unprovable mysterioso "out there" to be wondered at, of course.

    My point (which is obviously lost on certain readers) is that what is very mundane, ordinary and negligible of itself comes to be considered as EXTRAordinary because people inflate life with the numinous imagination.

    Your first girlfriend now is a passionate longing.

    The old house you lived in as a child....a paradise......

    Blah blah blah.

    The reverse takes place just as easily, by the way....

    Take a few minutes and look at the list of top ten favorite celebrated books, movies, songs from the 1930's through about 1970. See how many were held up to be genius and how few have stood the test of time.

    Human opinion does all the magic.

    Classics are made classics not only by the sheer dint of creative acumen. A great deal of social pressure goes into the making of legends.

    Marilyn Monroe and James Dean remain as ICONS.

    Do you know how many actors were infinitely better than Marilyn or Dean were but who are by now forgotten.

    Hype wins the day!

    Orson Welles was touted as a genius too late to save his bacon.

    Picasso spent his last decade as a hack slogging out crap.

    So too, Salvador Dali. A whore of monumental proportions in his twilight years.

    Elvis is the King of Rock and Roll? Really?? Maybe for three years....until the godawful schlock years took over his career.

    You see....it works both ways.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    There were countless writings by innumerable persons foisting their opinions off as heavenly and nobody paid any attention.

    True enough. However, that does not appear to have been the case with the documents of the New Testament. They were copied far and wide, very early in church history. The apostles and many of their successors became martyrs for what they believed (and the apostles would have been in a position to know if they were lying - might not be worth dying for a lie that they knew to be a lie). It's simply absurd to suggest that the original autographs were simply unimportant and discarded as of no value, and there is no historical support for such a position. Every historical record we have tells us that the early Christians were zealous in spreading the Word.

    Of course you will believe what supports your own view.

    Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking when I read your original post in this thread. While I often disagree with your positions, I usually expect better arguments from you.

    The original tablets of Moses? Gone.

    The jar of manna? Gone.

    The Ark of the Covenant? Gone.

    How many verifiable artifacts do we actually have from corresponding periods of history? By "verifiable," I mean artifacts that can be specifically identified with recorded events or persons? Do we have Nebuchadnezzar's old toilet paper rolls? Perhaps a salt shaker that belonged to the Buddha? It seems to me that you are imposing a standard of proof for "holy" artifacts that you would not require of any other type of artifact or area of history. Holy or not, the vast majority of artifacts do not survive for thousands of years, especially when significant efforts are made to destroy them. You may recall that the Jewish Temple was destroyed not once, but twice and was looted of its valuables on other occasions . Is it possible that that might explain the missing "holy" artifacts, and not that someone simply thought they were junk and decided to recycle them?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Things are just that, things and people put vary degrees of importance on things.

    Paul's letters were important, they were important enough ( to someone) to be written, to be read, to be passed down and here we are, almost 2000 years later talking about them.

    Does that make them Holy? well, each one of us has to make that distinction.

    ho·ly

        / 'ho?li / Show Spelled [ hoh -lee ] Show IPA adjective, -li·er, -li·est, noun, plural -lies. –adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2. dedicated or devoted to the service of god , the church, or religion: a holy man. 3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life. 4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love . 5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic. 6. religious: holy rites. 7. inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: The director, when angry, is a holy terror.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Unlike other animals, us humans have built an imaginary world in our word driven minds and projected our illusions into the minds of other humans. The natural world of animals is unaware of the games we play.

    To reinforce our imaginary world we place huge value on the memorabilia that supports the concept that our illusions have value.

    We are utterly delude. The problem is that once free of our illusions, our purpose as humans vanishes.

    We are in fact a waste of space; a strange destructive species that lives in anxiety and fear of death. We think that we are the solution, when in fact we are the problem.

    Viewing ourselves as Holy or special is our greatest delusion.

    Even our concept of love is a delusion but it is possibly the closest we get to having value.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    I am holy

  • Terry
    Terry

    Humans have the deeply felt need to continue living and it drives them toward imaginary solutions which require the existence of supernatural beings who can assist toward that end.

    Humans also unconsciously recognize it is a sham and feel guilty and unworthy in constructing such a deus ex machina.

    Consequently, the scenario becomes frought with all sorts of unhealthy complications.

    We end up having to appease our own mental construct!

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