The Faithful and Discreet WHAT?

by Cold Steel 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  isaacaustin

  Debator said:

  Hebrews 13:17
  Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  Our Overseers do their Job and it's one of the reasons I am a witness. I have no interest in religions with leaders that enjoy all the money, pomp and ceremony, jewels and private planes without doing any of the bible assigned work of feeding/rebuking/guiding/teaching the sheep.

  It's easy to watch and critisise from the sidelines if your not doing the work. but that doesn't change that you are not doing the work.

  My reply: Out of context, like always.

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  Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

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  Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

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  Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teaching. 2 It is good to have our hearts strengthened by grace and not by foods, which do not benefit those who live by them.

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  We have an altar 3 from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat.

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  The bodies of the animals whose blood the high priest brings into the sanctuary as a sin offering are burned outside the camp.

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  Therefore, Jesus also suffered outside the gate, to consecrate the people by his own blood.

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  Let us then go to him outside the camp, bearing the reproach that he bore.

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  For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the one that is to come.

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  Through him (then) let us continually offer God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips that confess his name.

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  Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have; God is pleased by sacrifices of that kind.

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  4 Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they keep watch over you and will have to give an account, that they may fulfill their task with joy and not with sorrow, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  Not absolute obedience, but obedience to the extent that what they are teaching is actually the teachings of Christ. The reek word rendered 'obedient' has actually several different meanings..one of which is to be open to reason or being convinced.
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  isaacaustin

  Debator said: Hi cantleave

  You have to be inspired of God to do prophecies! we have never claimed inspiration. We take our understandings from already written Bible prophecies and chronology. I have discussed this indepth already on this site and find it hard to understand that you would still believe what is obviously a made-up wrongdoing to put at witnesses door?

  My reply: Effectively they have claimed inspiration. They have claimed to be God's modern-day prophet, his sole channel of communication and his org. Members must accept their teachings as from God himself. Connect the dots and they are claiming inspiration while flat-out denying it.

  Debator said:

  Exwhyzee

  I tested all the religions by the bible itself and Jehovah's witnesses stood out uniquely.

  My reply: For their lack of love? Or for their false prophecies? For their wrong teachings? Or for being a controlling cult?

  Debator said:

  Matthew 18:16-21 (New International Version)

  16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' [a] 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

  18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be [b] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be [c] loosed in heaven.

  19 "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

  We use verse 19 a lot but it's context is instruction on how to keep the flock clean and the authority given by Jesus for our shepherds to do this. He clearly gives a certain automony of handling these situations saying his father God will stick by it.

  My reply: Are you referencing disfellowshipping? JWs do not follow verse 16. Jesus was talking to his followers here. How did Jesus treat tax collectors and men of the nations? He ate with them. Please don't insult my intelligence by saying he was telling his followers to follow how the religious leaders treated men of the nations and tax collectors. If that is your ridiculous claim, makes me wonder why in everything else he told his followers not to follow their ways.
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  Essan

  Debator said: "You have to be inspired of God to do prophecies! we have never claimed inspiration."

  No you have to be inspired of God to give TRUE prophesies - you obviously don't have to be inspired to be a FALSE PROPHET.

  The Society has DIRECTLY referred to the work they do as prophesy, and they certainly attempt to fill the role of a prophet and expect to be believed by the membership as if they were a prophet. There are so many Watchtower references to this that any JW who is aware of them and yet denies that they have set themselves in the place of a prophet - and have failed miserably - is simply being dishonest.

  They try to have their cake and eat it. They claim to be God's sole channel of communication, they have made countless (failed) predictions, they have called their words and predictions "God's dates", "The Creators Promise" etc. They have claimed Jehovah is the editor of the Watchtower. They expect to be believed without question in every - ever changing - thing they say. Then, when their false prophesies fail, they pretend they didn't claim to be a prophet. Pure cynical doublespeak. The damning evidence is simply endless. That some JWs who are aware of this still allow themselves to be deceived by it is simply tragic.
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  isaacaustin

  Hananiah’s False Prophecy 1 Now in the same year, in the beginning of the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, in the fourth year, in the fifth month, Hananiah the son of Azzur, the prophet, who was from Gibeon, spoke to me in the house of the L ORD in the presence of the priests and all the people, saying, 2 “Thus says the L ORD of hosts, the God of Israel, ‘I have broken the yoke of the king of Babylon. 3 ‘Within two years I am going to bring back to this place all the vessels of the L ORD’S house, which Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon took away from this place and carried to Babylon. 4 ‘I am also going to bring back to this place Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, and all the exiles of Judah who went to Babylon,’ declares the L ORD , ‘for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon.’”

  "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."

  The Wt followed the course of hananiah...taking something recorded in the Bible...putting their own interpretation and time frame on it...while calling it God's promise. Jeremiah calls this a false prophecy. Read on and see the result.

  10 Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from the neck of Jeremiah the prophet and broke it. 11 Hananiah spoke in the presence of all the people, saying, “Thus says the L ORD , ‘Even so will I break within two full years the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all the nations.’” Then the prophet Jeremiah went his way.

  12 The word of the L ORD came to Jeremiah after Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying, 13 “Go and speak to Hananiah, saying, ‘Thus says the L ORD , “You have broken the yokes of wood, but you have made instead of them yokes of iron.” 14 ‘For thus says the L ORD of hosts, the God of Israel, “I have put a yoke of iron on the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they will serve him. And I have also given him the beasts of the field.”’” 15 Then Jeremiah the prophet said to Hananiah the prophet, “Listen now, Hananiah, the L ORD has not sent you, and you have made this people trust in a lie. 16 “Therefore thus says the L ORD , ‘Behold, I am about to remove you from the face of the earth. This year you are going to die, because you have counseled rebellion against the L ORD .’”

  17 So Hananiah the prophet died in the same year in the seventh month.
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  cantleave

  You have to be inspired of God to do prophecies! we have never claimed inspiration

  Debator - I suggest you read the June 15th 1964 Watchower and still make that statement.