Virgina already has AZ illegal immigration law

by moshe 46 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest TD... peace to you!

    Do past injustices have a bearing on whether you should be able to drive a black pickup truck in relative safety today?

    They do, IMHO... and IMHO, they should. Meaning, the kind of thinking that fostered such "past injustices" is alive and well in the good old U.S. of A today... such that even today, they bear negatively on such ability, in some states... however, those "past injustices" SHOULD make it "relatively safe" for ANYONE to drive a black pickup truck today. It does not, however...

    Do people in other states even understand the significance of the question above?

    That's rhetorical, right?

    If not, why do they seem to have such strong opinions about the situation in AZ?

    Depends on which side of the argument you're referring to -

    Don't forget, these people do pay taxes. No they don't. How can they pay taxes without a social security number?

    The folks can't work without a social security number, dear Dark Side (peace to you!)... and so, contrary to VERY popular belief, they DO pay taxes. Unfortunately, they cannot collect the Social Security, Medicare, etc., that they pay into - THAT goes to the person whose social security number is being used. So, it's not ALL bad (though I do NOT agree with stealing other people's identitied, not at all! If we simply gave them their own SSNs, ones that indicate they are not citizens (like, but different from, green cards, perhaps), then we would simply TAX them for working here. I mean, it ain't like we don't need the revenue! Just make them pay a little more, so that less goes to Mexico (or wherever they're from) and more stays here. But let 'em work, for God's sake!

    Because the AZ law has the potential to make life difficult for citizens who have committed no crime. Difficult? They have to carry an ID card. Who doesn't?

    I don't. And I sometimes don't, one because I am a bit scattered brained sometimes and so forget my purse, because two, I hate carrying a purse (and the one I carry is quite small). So sometimes I just have my ATM card... and not even that, if I don't need it. True, I carry my ID when I'm driving, just in case I get pulled over, but even then, I'm not going to jail. I would just get a citation for "driving without a license," which citation I can make go away simply by presenting my license in court at a later date. I do carry ID when I'm out of state, for obvious reasons (i.e., in case I end up in the hospital).

    Finally, I have to say that it really is not the employers or the illegals who are at fault here. It is the American people... who want more... for less... want to be paid more... for less work... or live at the poverty level and so can't afford even the basic necessities. It really is as simple as that.

    Illegal immigrant labor, however, allows those of us who want to "live better" to do so... and those of us who wouldn't normally be able to do so afford food and other products needed for minimal daily life that the high wages a unionized American laborer might not permit (and yes, we all know they would unionize, and no, I am not against unionization if it really is necessary - i.e., to preclude dishonest management/labor practices. But union wages are indisputably high, dear ones). Which is why the FEDERAL government hasn't done anything about it - they KNOW the disasters that would come upon this country if such a law really did keep illegals out. It would drive up wages, which would drive up the cost of food, and other products and services that "we" have some to rely on on a daily basis. And THEN you would hear the outcry... because the welfare rolls wouldn't be able to handle the increase, and the rich would really get richer and the poor poorer. We would be thrust right into that "obscene prices for barley" prophesy.

    So, while some employers use illegals, others have turned to labor abroad. And no one is to blame but the Amercian people... who want the "best"... for "less." Luxury costs, dear ones... one way or another: either in dollars... or in jobs.

    If you disbelieve this truth, then you don't understand what the U.S. institution of slavery was REALLY all about. It was NOT about racism - racism was merely a "tool" contrived to make those who would otherwise have a problem with slavery overlook it (well, they're not really human, but only 3/5ths and so it's okay!). The U.S. institution of slavery was about FREE LABOR... which was "necessary" to build the wealth of this country. The land-owners and business moguls could NOT have gotten rich if they had to pay for all that labor. So, they paid the "minimum" - food, barely... clothing, barely... and shelter... barely. They tried it with the natives, who fought back... and the Irish and Scots... who went back. The Africans couldn't fight (they didn't know where they were and had no resources to fight, to even make weapons or to feed themselves while fighting)... and they certainly couldn't go back (where... and how?).

    Illegal immigrantion is "illegal," as to man's laws, yes. Constructing laws that keep people from feeding themselves or their families, indeed from working to do so is "illegal"... and immoral... as to God's laws. If I am a christian... and my brother across the river is a christian... and I say to him, "Yes, there is work and food on this side of the river, but my government says you can't cross over to here to access them and so I can't let you because I must obey them," am I REALLY a christian? Truly, which law are we to obey FIRST? The law of MERCY? Or the law of obedience to the "superior authorities"? Something to think about...

    Again, I bid you all peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • moshe
    moshe

    A Christian nation is really at a disadvantage as there will always be people with great economic needs. I think we can safely say that the USA no longer has any free money/benefits/jobs that we can afford to dole out to our southern Hispanic neighbors. Is it wrong to have a secure border? No I don't think so, as the USA has many enemies who wish to do us harm. Then let us secure the border by any and all means and continue to deport 400,000 illegals a year- the illegal problem will solve itself by 2020. We also need a better tracking system to pick up foreign visitors who over stay their visa and lastly purge the voter registration rolls of the millions of non citizens who have been illegally voting in our elections.

  • TD
    TD

    Peace to you dear Shelby

    That's rhetorical, right?

    Not entirely I guess.

    I am actually curious if anyone knows why (regardless of your skin color or ethnicity) it's dangerous to drive one [a black pickup truck] in certain areas of Phoenix and Tucson.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    A Christian nation is really at a disadvantage as there will always be people with great economic needs.

    I am not sure how you mean this, dear Moshe (peace to you!). Isn't looking after the poor a PRIVILEGE, except when doing so takes away from one's direct relationship with Christ? I mean, I know that my Lord was recorded to hold Judas back when that one feigned wanting to help the poor by selling some valuable oil by saying "You will always have the poor with you." But isn't the Most Holy One of Israel the God of the poor? And don't non-christian nations also have poor? And so, isn't it a PRIVILEGE that "christian" nations are FORTUNATE enough to be ABLE to help such less fortunate nations?

    I think we can safely say that the USA no longer has any free money/benefits/jobs that we can afford to dole out to our southern Hispanic neighbors.

    Really. Yet, we "have", what, $1,023,800,264,195 (as of 2 minutes ago), to spend on war... with countries that did us no harm. I must say that I find your position here quite interesting. And, please... PLEASE... don't try to tell me that we "needed to go to war" with either Iraq OR Afghanistan. Sadam Hussein did NOT have any WMDs and Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi (an "ally" nation), not an Afghani or Iraqi... and he's supposedly hiding in Pakistan (another "ally" nation), not Afghanistan or Iraq. Surely, you can see there's "something wrong" about that...

    Is it wrong to have a secure border? No I don't think so, as the USA has many enemies who wish to do us harm.

    Yet, none of them have proven to be Mexican or Canadian, thus far (well, okay, maybe one guy). But this isn't about securing the borders due to enemies, is it, really? If that were the case, then we would also be looking for some indication of intent to harm the U.S.

    But the truth is that this is about your fear... and that of those like you... that someone might get a piece of "your" pie... and so make your "piece" a little smaller. Funny thing: a U.S. citizen's piece of the pie has less to do with illegal immigration than it does with (1) a lack of education (which is NO ONE'S fault but the one refusing to GET an education); (2) the cost of living in the U.S. (which is actually TEMPERED by the presence of immigrant labor, as U.S. citizens demand higher wages than almost any other labor force in the world); and (3) our "thirst" for capitalism, which drives up the cost for things like health care (ever see what hospital administrators/pharmaceutical company execs get paid?), etc.

    Then let us secure the border by any and all means

    Any... and ALL... means, dear Moshe? And what, pray tell, if those means are violent, even death-dealing? And what, if under such circumstances, the "illegal" is also a christian... and/or has family/children? Any... and ALL... means? Truly?

    and continue to deport 400,000 illegals a year- the illegal problem will solve itself by 2020.

    Perhaps, dear one. But the potential results bring to my mind an episode of "I Dream of Jeannie" that I saw once. In it, "Major Nelson" wanted Jeannie's powers and went into a bit of trance thinking of what he could do with them. Jeannie, in her television "wisdom," was alarmed and said something to the effect that, if one doesn't really know what one is doing, one could stop a war, yes, but by doing so actually start 10 others.

    So, deport all of the illegals, sure. But you and those who think like you should most probably also get prepared for the real "collapse" of this country. The recent credit/mortgage/banking/Wall Street crises would pale in comparison. Seriously.

    We also need a better tracking system to pick up foreign visitors who over stay their visa and lastly purge the voter registration rolls of the millions of non citizens who have been illegally voting in our elections.

    Ahhhh, yes... "patriotism." Such a "restful" odor, no? The TRUTH, dear Moshe... is that rather than spending our time hunting down people who only want to work for a living... or people who don't have WMDs... we need a better tracking system for REAL criminals. For example, the 200 or so pedophiles who live within a 2 mile radius of a school. Or perhaps the felony sex offender who was released and then lost track of so that not only was he able to kidnap a 10-year-old girl from the street where she lived but WAS ABLE TO KEEP HER IN HIS HOUSE FOR CLOSE TO 20 YEARS ALTHOUGH PAROLE AND PROBATION VISITED HIS HOUSE ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS OVER THE YEARS BUT NEVER HAD A CLUE... BUT DIDN'T STOP THERE, NO, BUT ALSO FATHERED TWO CHILDREN BY HER.

    Seriously: let's ask the American public who they would RATHER the government to spend money "finding." I am willing to bet you a full week of silence of this forum that THEY will say "Let's find 'a better tracking system' for those folks!"

    Again, I wish you peace... and perhaps just a tad bit of a larger heart.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • TD
    TD

    Since nobody wanted to "bite" on the black pickup thing, I'll explain it.

    Our government in it's wisdom (cough cough) doesn't want to streamline the immigration process and at the same time, they don't want to fully enforce the existing laws that restrict it.

    The creates a situation where smuggling human beings is lucrative. In other words, for a fee a person called a 'coyote' will help you get into the U.S.

    Coyotes want a particular type of vehicle to make the actual crossing. They want it to be stolen, as dark as possible, have high ground clearance and be easy for people to jump in and out of. A black pickup is perfect. They'll drive it through the gullies and washes in the open desert, come within a few miles of a road and either drop the people off or (more likely) transfer them to other vehicles.

    Coyotes are not people you want to mess with. They don't have the slightest qualm about killing you. If you're the proud owner of a new black pickup and you're lucky, all that might happen is that you'll find a pile of broken glass where you parked. If you're not lucky, you'll could be getting into or out of the truck when they try to take it.

    What I've said here can be confirmed by speaking (off the record) to a Phoenix police officer. (Or by parking a new black pickup at Metro Center)

    I don't fault Hispanic people for doing the exact same thing I would do if I were in their shoes. I fault our government for allowing the problem to fester for as long as it has.

  • B-Rock
    B-Rock

    NY judge gives hispanics 6 votes per person.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHbdc8Q_3Ek

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    No the whole thing is stupid.

    It's exactly like punishing addicts to fight the drug war. It's idiotic it cost billions a year and won't do anything. You want to fight illegals you go after the EMPLOYERS you bust someone with illegals working for them you charge them 10k or 20k PER ILLEGAL if they pull out paperwork showing that the illegal presented stolen documents and that they did intend to do an actual check you let them off ONE time then they are on a monitoring list from then on. They do it again the fine is DOUBLED.

    And if they subcontract out to a 'legal' who hires all his illegal buddies so that the company isn't technically hiring illegals you DON'T FUCKING FALL FOR IT! You bust the big company anyway they know it's going on and they don't stop it. You hit one or two of these meat packing companies and construction companies with 1,000,000 plus fines and run a few out of business and this crap will STOP!!!

    Oh wait that won't work big businesses like that are usually owned by Rethuglicans! If we end the jobs we chase out the illegals then we piss of the Hispanics who usually vote Democrap so that won't work either!

    You guys are falling for this garbage hook line and sinker, it's just like healthcare both sides make a bunch of fuss and hollar and scream but neither side REALLY wants to fix it so they get us to fight each other about how if only OUR side was in charge things would be different but guess what it's bullshit NEITHER SIDE is going to fix any of this crap...

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit