"You don't have to go to church to know God." (page 3)

BurnTheShips

What I'm finding is that denominational lines mean almost nothing today.

You know, I think you're right.

BTS

Christianity at large is a bookish religion, concerned with correct beliefs (doctrines, if you prefer). My Presbyterian friends, like yourself, are extremely well read in Calvinism and many other points of theology. (I realize that you attend a Baptist church.) They can easily detail why the beliefs of other denominations are incorrect. They have a real interest in abstract details and the specific names of the various minutia of doctrine. I never encountered this type of enthusiasm and knoledge at the Southern Baptist Church of my childhood. It was far more emotional. As you've mentioned, Sovreign Grace, a very important aspect of your belief system, is unknown (and unimportant) to many of the faithful.

The JWs will absolutely disfellowship someone over improper beliefs. But, your point is taken, MOST churches are not in a hurry to kick anyone out.

FlyingHighNow

God's grace is not limited to a select few. The moment any religion believes it is, you can be sure that

religion knows nothing of God.

I invite you to look into this, even if you just read the top of the page:

http://www.christianuniversalist.org/

leavingwt

FlyingHighNow -- If I were among The Chosen, the idea of Universalism would make me feel infinitely less SPECIAL. My halo would lose it's sparkle if I weren't surrounded by heathens.

FlyingHighNow

I like the idea that all angels and people are chosen and have sparkling halos and auras. Some of us just need more rehab and community service.

Deputy Dog

leavingwt

Christianity at large is a bookish religion, concerned with correct beliefs (doctrines, if you prefer).

The JWs would probably agree with that statement.

I believe there is a huge difference between the two. You can know all the "correct doctrines" an not have faith in Christ and His gospel.

The JWs will absolutely disfellowship someone over improper beliefs.

How would they know?

As many on this board have noted it's easy to be a good JW. It's about what the WT says, NOT what you personaly believe. As long as your behavior is good and you keep your mouth shut, they really don't know and don't care what you really believe.

Thinking back to my 3 year study with the JWs, I would make it a point to ask the man leading the study, what "HE believed" and he always made it a point to tell me "It doesn't matter what he believes, but what the WT says".

leavingwt

DD:

The JWs would probably agree with that statement.

Yes, but many outsiders (non-Christians) would also likely agree. It's relative, for sure.

As many on this board have noted it's easy to be a good JW.

It's easy to be a member of any number of religions. I think you're headed into what it means to be a "true" Christian, etc. I'm not qualified to discuss that.

Deputy Dog

FHN

I invite you to look into this, even if you just read the top of the page:
http://www.christianuniversalist.org/

From: http://www.christianuniversalist.org/articles/universalsalvation.html

We believe in the ultimate triumph of divine mercy and grace: that no being ever created will be condemned or allowed to suffer forever, but God has arranged through a benevolent plan of learning and growth for all souls to attain salvation, reconciliation, restoration, and reunion with the Source of All Being, in the fullness of the ages
.

When you meet the devil in the next life, do me a favor and give him a big KISS Kick in the A** . According to the book of Revelation I'll never get the chance or have to deal with him again.

FlyingHighNow

When you meet the devil in the next life, do me a favor and give him a big KISS Kick in the A** . According to the book of Revelation I'll never get the

chance or have to deal with him again.

I don't take the book literally. I am guessing that you do. There is more than one way to conquer an enemy. I'd suppose that love is the superior way. And think about it, love is an exception to free will. When's the last time you truly loved someone and then chose not to love that person anymore?

BurnTheShips

I guess I am kind of midway between DD and FHN.

I think that everyone that loves God so much as to make their eternal home in Him, will get to do so. Since the soul was made to be in union with the Father, this I call "heaven."

Those that do not and prefer their homes elsewhere, will get to do so. Since the soul was made to be union with the Father, this I call "hell."

I agree with our Calvinist friends on the sovereignty of God. However, I also think that God gave us a gift of Free Will. I think he deliberately ceded sovereignty within our own selves so we could have our own domain of power. In this, we are in God's image. Within our limits, we are capable of choice, like God is in an unlimited way.

We shall judge our selves. Our judgement will be our choice of where we spend eternity. Since God dwells in us, it is his judgement too. He respects our choices. Those of us that have chosen God, but don't feel we are yet ready to meet him, will have all the time we wish. The soul doesn't lie to itself. The lies are all here, in this illusionary place where we live.

DD emphasizes God's justice, and how much greater it is than ours.

I agree, but I think his love is greater. If Jesus' teaching and life proves anything to me, it is that God's love and mercy are greater. None of us deserve the gift. However, love means giving something undeservedly. It is a verb.

Have my children earned anything? No. But, as FHN says, I can't help but to love them. I can't help but to do anything needed for them, even including my own life.

We are God's children, all of us. He knew every one of us from the beginning of Time.

He loves us, he is calling us all home.

In many ways.

Either way, I respect both DD and FHN's perspectives, and I think they describe the same coin, just from different sides.

"You don't have to go to church to know God."

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