God's forced PLOT point (which just doesn't make sense!)

by Terry 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • debator

    We do not gain salvation because we are free of sin. Jesus being sinless meant he could not be left dead when he was killed. His sacrifice was that of a perfect man and so by freely giving up that life as a perfect man on earth he then opens a way for us to gain salvation.

    Our sinful state is not an excuse, We can still recognise good and evil and strive to fight against our sinful state. Without Jesus sacrifice we only had the judgement of death on us. But Jesus's sacrifice allows us to gain life.

    Romans 2:11-13 (New International Version)

    11 For God does not show favoritism.

    12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

  • Perry


    Awesome thinking Terry! Unfortunately, it is a cut and paste from my thread above. Don't you have anything in rebuttal to say to my response there?

    Everyone can continue congratulating Terry now on his discredited reasoning. Sorry to interrupt.

  • myelaine

    dear journey-on...

    you said: "We can only be what we are, the manifested image of the creator. And since we were separated and given free will to find our own path to the knowledge of good and evil, it is up to us to perfect that image.....and so we keep "chasing cars".....because that is who/what we are."

    ...I don't recall reading about Jesus (our creator) "chasing cars"...to the contrary at the age of 12 He KNEW He should be in His Father's house.

    dear Mall Cop...

    God said that all that He had created was very good...not perfect (genesis 1:31)...because men and angels have free will and freedom of thought they themselves have the capacity to "create" their own evil thoughts and intentions...but what God had created He considered very good. If He had created man perfect then man would not have wanted to know or see what evil was, imo.

    love michelle

  • journey-on

    Hi, myelaine....You are pulling your explanation for my words from YOUR personal cadre of beliefs, which seem to me to be based on the doctrines of man. You know very little about the boy/man, Jesus. The bible is virtually silent about the years between age 12 and age 29. He could have been a juvenile delinquent for all you know ;-) You have no idea what he chased before he got to the point where OUR story about him begins.

  • designs

    The first REformation in Jewish thought and philosophy occured after their repatriation from Babylon. Things that began to rapidly change from their society, culture and self identity- Slavery, animal immolations, self loathing. The brilliant idea that God made everything pretty well was a big step.

  • Terry

    God created humans...with some characteristics reminiscent of sheep and goats...

    Which renders moot the analogy because humans display a human nature. It is the human nature itself which is the blueprint for humanity's actions.

    do you believe that someones character can't change from say a goat to a sheep or even sheep to goat?

    Change of character? I'd love to hear a definition of character as you are using it before I reply.

    but...speaking of dogs...if YOU loved YOURS would YOU take steps to train him or would you continue to let him out the door and hope that he wouldn't run on to the road again and again?...if you saw your neighbours dog doing this thing wouldn't you even think that the neighbour was obtuse...or would you maintain that it was completely the untrained dogs fault that he kept getting hit by the cars?

    To follow your line of reasoning, God has let his own dogs run loose to bark, snarl, bite, maim and kill for thousands of years. Are those dogs to blame or their owner/trainer?

  • Terry

    Awesome thinking Terry! Unfortunately, it is a cut and paste from my thread above. Don't you have anything in rebuttal to say to my response there?

    Everyone can continue congratulating Terry now on his discredited reasoning. Sorry to interrupt...

    I can't grasp your "rebuttal". So, it makes it difficult to reply.

    What we think is often at odds with what we do. Which is good and which is bad? What we "think" or what we "do"?

    I "think" I should help that dying man on the sidewalk but I'm afraid of being sued because I'm a physician. Am I "bad" or "good"?

    When we start talking theology the words are so glued to flawed analogy and parsed definitions it is all a meaningless soup when it comes to reason, logic and plot.

    So, no. I guess I have no rebuttal.

  • dgp

    Marked for later

  • Terry

    Here is a simple question: Why is it better (from God's standpoint) to allow thousands of years of human history before setting matters straight?

    No matter when God intervenes there are millions of unborn humans as yet waiting to exist.

    If your house is on fire in one corner of the room how much further burning is okay before you bring in the Fire Department hoses?

    Delay is deadly and destructive.

    Just curious.

  • Snotrag

    Wat if the difference is that god has learned? Man is supposed to be like god. Man learns. Jesus came and taught love. This is a change in thought that has captured the mind of man. Is it not posssible that god has changed his position because he learned that dictatorial force does not work? The concept of love does away with your arguement. Man seeks peace when he feels love. This is new to mankind and he has not learned it yet. The promise of a better world is waiting for this concept to reach through the fog.

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