God's forced PLOT point (which just doesn't make sense!)

by Terry 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry

    The bifurcation of Christianity's dealing with the "plot" that drives God's "plan" is never more explicitly revealed as not logically reasoned out than when it comes to the "good" and the "evil" being judged.

    What is the point in judging "evil" if God is going to simply call the same sinful, imperfect man "good" who confesses Christ?

    It makes about as much sense as putting a zero on top of a zero and calling it 8.

    Justification is nothing more than calling evil "good" by reframing the context.

    Sin kills man. Man is resurrected and is judged. Redundant.

    The condition of sin is merely natural behavior. A dog chases cars because it is a dog and not because the dog is a sinner.

    If the dog gets run over by the car and a team of surgeon's brings it back from near-death it is still a dog that will chase cars (unless the injury makes running impossible.) A crippled dog is not a former sinner. The damned dog simply can't run anymore.

    Man is crippled by sin. A justified sinner is saved by Grace. The same car-chasing dog is now "saved" and forgiven for continuing to chase cars.

    Utter simplicity of logic abused.

    Judging the nature of a living creature based on the actions of its nature is like calling a stone bad names because it falls when you let go of it.

    A thing IS what it is.

    Loving man, for God, means loving what man IS.

    Man is a sinner. God cannot love sin. So, God waves a magic wand and calls the sinner "forgiven".

    I hate liver. What if I call it chocolate pudding?

    That sort of silliness.

    There is no basis for God to "so LOVE the world that He gave His only begotten son...." because the World is a world of SIN.

    It violates God's previous punishment and destruction of the World by Flood. (They were sinners!)

    This all comes down to the various bible stories finding origin in human imagination. There is no OVER-ARCHING PLOT!!

    GRACE is a forced plot point that just doesn't work or make sense.

  • bohm

    Nice essay


    I have missed your posts since you reduced your output Terry. I hope you don't become bored or frustrated with people on the board because it would be diminished without you.


    Yes, Sin and evil are subjective terms, we are what we are by nature. We can be selfish or kind depending on which is the most appropriate action for ourselves of family. It is to our collective advantage to consider each other and work together as a society.

    There is great freedom in accepting that this is our world and we are responsible for how it turns out. Grace is something we show when we give someone a second chance. The bogey man in the sky is a primitive and outdated concept that has failed to explain the human condition.

  • myelaine

    dear Terry...

    Jesus broke it down for us a little more than good and evil...He spoke of a sub-set...sheep and goats.

    love michelle

    p.s. I hope I didn't clog up your e-mail ...xo

  • Terry

    dear Terry...

    Jesus broke it down for us a little more than good and evil...He spoke of a sub-set...sheep and goats.

    And this serves to prove my point!

    Follow along with me now carefully, if you will.....

    A real goat was born a goat. It had goat parents. It does goat things.

    A real sheep was born a sheep. It had sheep parents.

    Now, apply this truism to the words of Jesus you just waved in front of me.

    Can a goat stop being a goat because it accepts Jesus as its saviour? Will it now become a sheep?

    Certainly not!


    Because things are EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE and cannot become "other."

    The analogy is putrid with bias.

    If God wanted sheep ONLY there would only be sheep.

    If God made goats and then hates them and wants to destroy them----should we actually blame the goats??

    It is utterly silly and sad.

  • NomadSoul

    But Terry, god's ways are higher than ours! Oh wait, maybe our thinking should be higher. LOL

  • superpunk

    I always appreciate your threads, Terry - I like the simple approach to these core concepts of Christianity. Obviously there are mountains of apologetics that can be employed to attempt to somehow rationalize it, but that really just shows how flawed the idea is at it's core - demonstrating that if God exists, these ideas are not of God. Just man's poorly thought out notions, accepted as truth a long time ago and now preserved by volumes of apologetics intended to pacify people who would otherwise see through the deception.

  • myelaine

    dear Terry...

    God created humans...with some characteristics reminiscent of sheep and goats...

    do you believe that someones character can't change from say a goat to a sheep or even sheep to goat?

    but...speaking of dogs...if YOU loved YOURS would YOU take steps to train him or would you continue to let him out the door and hope that he wouldn't run on to the road again and again?...if you saw your neighbours dog doing this thing wouldn't you even think that the neighbour was obtuse...or would you maintain that it was completely the untrained dogs fault that he kept getting hit by the cars?

    love michelle

  • journey-on

    I think one of the keys to understanding the so-called cosmic plot and plan is knowing just what the term "confessing Christ" means. Who and/or what is the Christ, cosmically speaking? It is more than the man Jesus.

    In the driving force within man (innate...I believe) to understand (to know) good and evil, we have come up with all kinds of scenarios, stories and explanations to "get there". Sin simply means "missing the mark". We're not there yet. We are all sinners because we continue to miss the mark. But, because we are who we are, we keep working at it.

    All the biblical stories and other scriptural writings are valuable tools in helping us observe man's progression in this search, his thoughts, his past efforts, failures, successes. Unfortunately, religion took these accounts and built doctrine from them :-(

    You are right, Terry. We can only be what we are, the manifested image of the creator. And since we were separated and given free will to find our own path to the knowledge of good and evil, it is up to us to perfect that image.....and so we keep "chasing cars".....because that is who/what we are.

  • Mall Cop
    Mall Cop

    You remind of another plot. The Passover plot. Jesus did not die on the cross etc. interesting read.

    Yes it is what it is.

    Hi Michelle! I thought that God created perfect humans without other characteristics. There was no goatly or sheeply chararacterics in his creation. Humans were made in the image and likeness of God and he don't have those kinds of characteristics in his makeup. Am I understanding you correctly.

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