@ djeggnog

by bennyk 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • bohm
    bohm

    Man djeggnog

    Children are deemed "holy" on account of their believing parents; if neither is believing, then the child that you think to be so innocent will, in fact, perish at Armageddon, and if he or she dies before Armageddon and he or she has no believing parent, that child will perish in this life and will not receive a resurrection. Do you now feel you have a better understanding of what the Bible teaches? of what Jehovah's Witnesses teach? Put this question to your wife and my hope is that she will be just as frank with you as I have been here.

    There were no children -- not a single infant -- that survived the global deluge that occurred in 2370 BC, and there were no children that survived the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah that occurred some 461 years later in 1909 BC, and just like the parents of these children, not one of their children will receive a resurrection during Judgment Day; they will all have fallen victim to the sword along with those on the side of your god when God's Executioner, Jesus Christ, brings to a climax the end of this wicked system of things at Armageddon.

    --

    Man this is just to good to be true! Jesus christ will take up a crappy wrestlers name, flip out and go around the world with a sword and kill men, woman and children? thats your God? The God who kill children because their parents dont drone around like you crying "jehobah, jehobadobalobah loooves you" and talk shit like you?

    Djeggnog. Your a clown. You invented a Clown-God who is stupid and obnoxious just like you, who are completely devoid of kindness, empathy, reason or kindness. Thats your mocking idol of a God, you assclown!

    Let me guess your a bit of an outcast among the witless.

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @bohm:

    Jesus [Christ] will take up a crappy wrestlers name, flip out and go around the world with a sword and kill men, woman and children? thats your God? The God who kill children because their parents dont drone around like you crying "jehobah, jehobadobalobah loooves you" and talk shit like you?

    I was referring to God's son, Jesus Christ, God's Chief Agent for salvation. Now Jehovah, Jesus' father, is not a man that could ever be guilty of killing someone undeservedly. You see, God made man, and as the Sovereign and Judge of the whole earth, He has the right to give life and to withhold life since He is the source of all life, both yours and mine. It is because of Jehovah that you are able to live and breath today.

    Why do you find so distasteful the thought of an all-powerful God (like Jehovah) snuffing out the lives of men, women and children that do not worship Him as their God? Is it perhaps because there is something inside of you, a moral center -- a conscience -- that the thought of billions of people alive today, who would not have even been born in the first place were it not for God's deliverance of Noah's three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, through a global deluge through whom all of the nations on earth came to be born, dying for being the sinful offspring of Adam and Eve, who God permitted to procreate despite their having forfeited the right to live by joining the rebellion against His rulership begun by Satan, disturbs you, repulses you? How long will you continue to be so arrogant as if your attitude toward the One responsible for the life in you will change anything about your sinful condition or your future?

    [You're] a clown. You invented a Clown-God who is stupid and obnoxious just like you, who are completely devoid of kindness, empathy, reason or kindness. Thats your mocking idol of a God, you assclown! Let me [guess; you're] a bit of an outcast among the witless.

    If I am a clown, I am one that is crying inside because you just don't get it. I'm not trying to get in the way of what really is your choice to make. I'm not here trying to tell you what to believe or what not to believe, but merely positing my opinion on the subject of salvation, pointing out that the Universal Sovereign deserves to be worshipped since He it was that made us and that He, as such, also has the right to decide who will live in the new world that He is making for those that want to worship Him in which to live.

    Now I'm not attacked you personally; I don't even know you, so why is it that you feel obliged to attack me? Because I happen to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses? So what if that is what I am? Have I no right to make this choice, even as you have the same right to make a different choice?

    I don't say that you should also believe what things I have decided based on my reading of the Bible are true. But I've made a choice to serve the true God, Jehovah, whereas you have made a different choice, and that's fine with me. I accept your choice and believe you have every right to live your life according to whatever precepts or ethical or moral standards you choose just as I have this same right. I don't judge you at all, for you have already been judged by someone much higher than I and whose judgment means so much more in this regard than mine.

  • bohm
    bohm

    I was referring to God's son, Jesus Christ, God's Chief Agent for salvation.

    You called him the Executioner before (capital E) and described him with a big sword he would use to kill babies whos sin was none of their parents believed in him. Please stick to that story, its more funny!

    Now Jehovah, Jesus' father, is not a man that could ever be guilty of killing someone undeservedly. You see, God made man, and as the Sovereign and Judge of the whole earth, He has the right to give life and to withhold life since He is the source of all life, both yours and mine. It is because of Jehovah that you are able to live and breath today.

    no its not but lets not go there - you said it: jehovah can do anything and he will still be good. Tell me, can jehovah order people to go out and have sex with children and still be good? If jehovah right now told you in a loud booming voice: DJEGGNOG, MY MILDLY DISTURBED SON, PLEASE GO OUT AND HAVE SEX WITH A CHILD!, would that make the action "good" because jehovah told you so?

    Why do you find so distasteful the thought of an all-powerful God (like Jehovah) snuffing out the lives of men, women and children that do not worship Him as their God?

    Uhm..... WHY DO I THINK ITS DISTATEFULL TO THINK OF A POWERFULL BEING KILLING A DEFENCELESS WOMAN OR A CHILD? your funny because you ask these kind of questions. Thats your mocking idol of the God of love: A killer.

    How long will you continue to be so arrogant as if your attitude toward the One responsible for the life in you will change anything about your sinful condition or your future?

    Your God, the clown-God of Djeggnogs making, is a reflection of your twisted view upon the world. He reflect the need for you to be super important, and the need for you to know that me, just another person who mock your twisted ideas, will eventually be killed so you will be vindicated. Your killer-God is all about you, not about love for anything.

    If I am a clown, I am one that is crying inside because you just don't get it.

    The white clown then?

    I'm not trying to get in the way of what really is your choice to make. I'm not here trying to tell you what to believe or what not to believe, but merely positing my opinion on the subject of salvation,

    bla bla bla. Big words to defend the indefendable: That Jesus "Executioner" Christ is somewhere, up there, sharpening his sword and like a santa from hell try to determine which parent believe enough in him so he wont have to kill their innocent children.

    Now I'm not attacked you personally; I don't even know you, so why is it that you feel obliged to attack me?

    Well, previously you called other liars and arrogant.

    Because I happen to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses? So what if that is what I am? Have I no right to make this choice, even as you have the same right to make a different choice?

    No, your not really one of jehovahs witness - the elder i study with has said explicitly this is not what he believe, that God will go about killing children because their parents does not believe. I never suspected him of thinking that, but he told me that on a related matter.

    Why i am calling you a clown? Your saying your God is going to kill me, and in essense that I and all I know deserve to die. Your ideas makes you the interlectual equivalent of a clown.

    I don't say that you should also believe what things I have decided based on my reading of the Bible are true.

    But if i dont i will be killed by jesus.

    But I've made a choice to serve the true God, Jehovah, whereas you have made a different choice, and that's fine with me.

    but jesus will kill me and i would deserve that

    I accept your choice and believe you have every right to live your life according to whatever precepts or ethical or moral standards you choose just as I have this same right.

    no you dont, you said even my children deserve to die because i dont believe.

    I don't judge you at all, for you have already been judged by someone much higher than I and whose judgment means so much more in this regard than mine.

    To death, and thats fine by you.

    question: Will Jesus torture the kids before he kill them, or just cut of their heads or something like that?

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    It's clear from this thread that djeggnog is at least one of the following:

    1. Not a Witness
    2. Unfamiliar/ignorant/confused about what the WT Society actually teaches
    3. Deliberately trying to be deceptive about what the WT Society actually teaches

    djeggnog stated the following (pay particular attention to the portion in bold):

    Children are deemed "holy" on account of their believing parents; if neither is believing, then the child that you think to be so innocent will, in fact, perish at Armageddon, and if he or she dies before Armageddon and he or she has no believing parent, that child will perish in this life and will not receive a resurrection. Do you now feel you have a better understanding of what the Bible teaches? of what Jehovah's Witnesses teach? Put this question to your wife and my hope is that she will be just as frank with you as I have been here.

    Note that the bolded statement is in direct contradiction to Acts 24:15 (resurrection of righteous and unrighteous) and the WT Society's interpretation of that verse. The Society teaches that "worldly" people who die before Armageddon can be resurrected as part of the "unrighteous." So, under WT theology, a child who dies in a car wreck today is eligible for a resurrection--whether or not the child's parents are Witnesses. For some unknown reason, djeggnog is taking it upon herself to judge who God is going to resurrect. Quite a presumptuous position!

    Of course, the WT Society does teach that when Armageddon comes, their God will kill all non-witnesses, including children. But that doesn't change the fact that djeggnog's statement above about a child dying before Armageddon is either made out of ignorance or an attempt to deceive.

  • TD
    TD
    Put this question to your wife and my hope is that she will be just as frank with you as I have been here.

    Okay, I did.

    From the publication What Does The Bible Really Teach? chapter 7, "Real Hope for Your Loved Ones Who Have Died"

    "Just think! Jehovah actually yearns to bring the dead back to life. Is it not heartwarming to learn that Jehovah feels that way? But what about this future resurrection? Who will be resurrected, and where?

    Who will be resurrected? Jesus said that "all those in the memorial tombs will hear his [Jesus’] voice and come out." (John 5:28, 29) Similarly, Revelation 20:13 says: "The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them." "Hades" refers to the common grave of mankind. (See the Appendix.) This collective grave will be emptied. All those billions who rest there will live again. The apostle Paul said: "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) What does that mean?"

    The book describes the "righteous" and then goes on to explain the term, "unrighteous"

    "What about all the people who did not serve or obey Jehovah because they never knew about him? These billions of "unrighteous" ones will not be forgotten. They too will be resurrected and given time to learn about the true God and to serve him. During a period of a thousand years, the dead will be resurrected and given an opportunity to join faithful humans on earth in serving Jehovah. It will be a wonderful time. This period is what the Bible refers to as Judgment Day."

    The only exception to this rule are the recalcitrant wicked in Gehenna:

    "Does this mean that every human who ever lived will be resurrected? No. The Bible says that some of the dead are in "Gehenna." (Luke 12:5) Gehenna got its name from a garbage dump located outside of ancient Jerusalem. Dead bodies and garbage were burned there. The dead whose bodies were thrown there were considered by the Jews to be unworthy of a burial and a resurrection. So Gehenna is a fitting symbol of everlasting destruction. Although Jesus will have a role in judging the living and the dead, Jehovah is the final Judge. (Acts 10:42) He will never resurrect those whom he judges to be wicked and unwilling to change."

    This is believed to include those that perish in Divine judgements (e.g. the Flood, Sodom, Gomorrah and Armageddon itself) but today, it does not include the children of non-Witnesses who die prior to that event.

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @Olin Moyles Ghost: I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm not ignorant of what we believe and I have no need to be deceptive about anything at all about which, not the WTS, but the Bible teaches.

    @TD: It would be good for you (and others here) to study the "What Does The Bible Really Teach?" book, but this publication doesn't comprehensively teach what John 5:28, 29 and Acts 24:15 mean. You really aren't qualified or competent to be trying to teach anyone a thing about what the Bible teaches, and it's hard for most anyone to explain anything to you because you don't know the truth, but believe that you do.

    Please consider the following excerpts from two (2) articles:

    [1] Questions From Readers

    [w51 7/15]

    • In John 5:28, 29 and Acts 24:15 it speaks of resurrections for those that have done good, or the just, and for those that have done evil, or the unjust. Who are the ones in each of these two groupings?—R. K., Pennsylvania.

    Consider the following two (2) scriptures:

    "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28, 29)

    "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

    (1) The faithful men of old and any of the great crowd of other sheep who may die before Armageddon may be viewed as having done good things and being counted righteous.

    (2) Those who have not lived during a judgment period and who did not know of Jehovah’s requirements and ignorantly practiced vile things will come back during the millennial resurrection of mankind in general to a "resurrection of judgment".

    John 5:28 limits resurrections to those "in the memorial tombs". So those individuals not "in the memorial tombs", or not thus symbolized as being in God’s memory, will not be remembered at resurrection time.

    Those now living in this time of judgment and who fail for one reason or another to take a stand for Jehovah, and are therefore slain by him at the battle of Armageddon, will not be retained in his memory for a resurrection.

    [2] Survival or Destruction at the "Great Tribulation"

    [w82 4/1]

    Jesus spoke of "those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead." (Luke 20:35)

    In Revelation chapter 20, the Bible says that the "sea" and "Hades" give up the dead in them.

    Naturally, as dignified witnesses of our God Jehovah, we do not go around threatening people with destruction. We should avoid becoming overly emotional and, perhaps unwittingly, criticizing Jehovah’s way of handling matters.

    "The great day of Jehovah is near." (Zephaniah 1:14)

    But what about all the people who have followed the clergy and their "unrighteous deception"? The apostle Paul speaks of these as "perishing [literally: "destroying themselves"], as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

    We are living in a time of judgment when "all the nations" are gathered before Christ Jesus.

    The people of all those nations are being separated into two classes, the "sheep" and the "goats." The end result is plainly stated: "everlasting life" for the "sheep," and "everlasting cutting-off" for the "goats." (Matthew 25:31-33, 46.)

    Notice that the "judicial punishment of everlasting destruction" is executed not only upon "those who make tribulation" for God’s people but also upon "those who do not know God" and "those who do not obey the good news." (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)

  • bohm
    bohm

    Djeggnog: You wont convince anyone by quoting an outdated view from a 1951 watchtower, which incidently is the only one remotely supporting your wrongfull view upon what the witnesses believe, and i mean VERY remotely; you somehow want to convince me that jehovah will kill a child for "not making a stand" for jehovah, but please explain to me how a 4 year old child of unbelieving parents could "make a stand". Baptism, witnessing, what? He cant even read the bible!

    Next sunday, try to ask your elder if a 4 year old child of unbelieving parents will positively be killed by Jesus. Tell him you firmly believe that is what all the GB believe and its clear from the bible. Tell him you will say that at door-to-door if anyone ask you, or if you are interviewed at a newspaper - even better, tell him you go to websites and convince people this is the view of all jehovahs witnesses.

    I would love to hear his response!

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @Olin Moyles Ghost: I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm not ignorant of what we believe and I have no need to be deceptive about anything at all about which, not the WTS, but the Bible teaches.

    @TD: It would be good for you (and others here) to study the "What Does The Bible Really Teach?" book, but this publication doesn't comprehensively teach what John 5:28, 29 and Acts 24:15 mean. You aren't qualified or competent to be trying to teach anyone a thing about what the Bible teaches, and it's hard for most anyone to explain anything to you because you don't know the truth, but believe that you do.

    @ bohm: This last article (#3) is also in response to your post (notice the date is 25 years later than 1951) and there has been to my knowledge no adjustment made to this viewpoint.

    Please consider the following excerpts from three (3) articles:

    [1] Questions From Readers

    [w51 7/15]

    • In John 5:28, 29 and Acts 24:15 it speaks of resurrections for those that have done good, or the just, and for those that have done evil, or the unjust. Who are the ones in each of these two groupings?—R. K., Pennsylvania.

    Consider the following two (2) scriptures:

    "The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28, 29)

    "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

    (1) The faithful men of old and any of the great crowd of other sheep who may die before Armageddon may be viewed as having done good things and being counted righteous.

    (2) Those who have not lived during a judgment period and who did not know of Jehovah’s requirements and ignorantly practiced vile things will come back during the millennial resurrection of mankind in general to a "resurrection of judgment".

    John 5:28 limits resurrections to those "in the memorial tombs". So those individuals not "in the memorial tombs", or not thus symbolized as being in God’s memory, will not be remembered at resurrection time.

    Those now living in this time of judgment and who fail for one reason or another to take a stand for Jehovah, and are therefore slain by him at the battle of Armageddon, will not be retained in his memory for a resurrection.

    [2] Survival or Destruction at the "Great Tribulation"

    [w82 4/1]

    Jesus spoke of "those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead." (Luke 20:35)

    In Revelation chapter 20, the Bible says that the "sea" and "Hades" give up the dead in them.

    Naturally, as dignified witnesses of our God Jehovah, we do not go around threatening people with destruction. We should avoid becoming overly emotional and, perhaps unwittingly, criticizing Jehovah’s way of handling matters.

    "The great day of Jehovah is near." (Zephaniah 1:14)

    But what about all the people who have followed the clergy and their "unrighteous deception"? The apostle Paul speaks of these as "perishing [literally: "destroying themselves"], as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

    We are living in a time of judgment when "all the nations" are gathered before Christ Jesus.

    The people of all those nations are being separated into two classes, the "sheep" and the "goats." The end result is plainly stated: "everlasting life" for the "sheep," and "everlasting cutting-off" for the "goats." (Matthew 25:31-33, 46.)

    Notice that the "judicial punishment of everlasting destruction" is executed not only upon "those who make tribulation" for God’s people but also upon "those who do not know God" and "those who do not obey the good news." (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)

    [3] Questions From Readers

    [w76 9/15]

    • First Corinthians 7:14 states that children of a believing parent "are holy." Is baptism involved in such a child’s ‘holiness’ in God’s sight?

    The apostle Paul is here discussing problems in a divided family. He encouraged the believing mate not to leave the unbeliever and, as a strong reason for keeping the marriage intact, said this: "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy." (1 Cor. 7:14) This shows that God views such children according to the principle of family merit. By family merit is meant the holiness that God credits, or imputes, to minor children who are obedient, to the extent that the child is unaccountable. This comes about due to the valuable record of holiness and good deeds that "parents in union with the Lord" have in God’s sight. (Eph. 6:1) This family merit applies even when only one of the parents is a believer, as Paul’s above-quoted words indicate.

    What, then, of baptism? A young child who is faithfully taught God’s Word will no doubt progress in knowledge and understanding, and in time reach the point where God’s spirit motivates him to make his own dedication to Jehovah and to request baptism. (1 Pet. 3:21) To be prepared for baptism, he must appreciate his need to repent, be converted and come into a proper relationship with God. (Acts 3:19; 8:34-36) After baptism, he would no longer be under family merit, but would be viewed as "holy" on his own account, being responsible before God to pursue a life of dedication.—1 Pet. 1:14-16; Col. 1:21-23.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Djeggnog: If i ask the elder i study with exactly this question: "Will a child living with unbelieving parents be killed by Jesus at armageddon?" and he says no, what will that signify? If i promise to ask that question, will you then ask your elder the same?

    None of your quotes, no matter how many times you repost them, says a child living with unbelieving parents will be killed at armageddon, because its simply not what the witnesses teach. Instead of copy-pasting, please help us connect the dots by elaborating.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Round call to other witnesses posting here: What do you think of what djeggnog is saying? Do you agree?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit