New Book: Jehovah is Jesus! Not Michael.

by Cold Steel 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Dr. Margaret Barker’s new book, The Great Angel: A Study of Israel’s Second God, argues conclusively that Yahweh, the God of Israel, was not the Father of Jesus, but Jesus Christ himself. Furthermore, the belief that Jehovah was God’s (Elyon’s) “first” Son — a tradition that went far back into Israelite history. It not only was known to the ancient prophets, but to the early Christians and even the Gnostics. Eusebius, writing in 320 A.D., notes that Moses “names first the Most High God, the Supreme God of the Universe, and then, as Lord, His Word, Whom we call Lord in the second degree after the God of the universe....” This second Lord (Jehovah) is “One beyond comparison with (the angels), the Head and King of the Universe, I mean to Christ Himself, as being the Only Begotten Son, was handed over that part of humanity denominated Jacob and Israel.” (Proof of the Gospel, IV.9)

    “Yahweh the God of Israel,” Barker writes, “was the Son, the Christ. The Word of God, [Eusebius] says called people to worship the Father, ‘Who is Most High, far above all things that are seen, beyond the heaven and the whole begotten essence, calling them quietly and gently, and delivering them to the worship of God Most High alone, the Unbegotten and the Creator of the Universe.’” (IV.9)

    Barker says “There was no doubt that Jesus was identified with the God of the Jews. The problem was: Who was this God of the Jews and what was his place in the hierarchy?” Even so, she continues, “The evidence that the first Christians identified Jesus with the God of the Jews is overwhelming; it was their customary way of reading the Old Testament. The appearances of Yahweh or the angel of Yahweh were read as manifestations of the pre-existent Christ. The Son of God was their name for Yahweh.” (Page 192)

    According to Philo, Barker says the Logos, or “second God” was “the heavenly high priest. He passed through the temple veil and clothed himself in it as he did so, thus taking material form.” (Page 98) Moreover, in ancient Hebrew theology, Yahweh and its various forms are always associated with salvation. Barker views the Yahweh tradition from its earliest days in light of the angels and sons of God, Yahweh being the first and by far the preeminent of the sons of Elyon.

    On the book’s back cover, the synopsis reads: “What did ‘Son of God,’ ‘Messiah,’ and ‘Lord’ mean to the first Christians when they used these words to describe their beliefs about Jesus? In this groundbraking, clearly written book, Margaret Barker goes against protocol and treats these three titles collectively.” It adds: “Barker claims that pre-Christian Judaism was not monotheistic and that the roots of Christian Trinitarian theology lie in pre-Christian Palestinian belief about the angels — a belief derived from the ancient religion of Israel in which there was a High God and several Sons of God. Yahweh was a Son of God, manifested on Earth in human form…. Jesus was a manifestation of Yahweh, acknowledged as Son of God, Messiah, and Lord.” That Jesus was more than an angel and preeminent in the Sons of God, being the Only Begotten, fits squarely with Old Testament scripture in which Yahweh and Elyon were One in Purpose, but separate entities.

    Steve Smoot reviewed her book on and reported: “The basic conclusion of Ms. Barker is that the earliest Hebrews, including the patriarchs and fathers of Israel, worshiped Yahweh or Jehovah as Lord of Israel and Elohim as Almighty God the Creator. She contends, correctly in my opinion, that the two were distinct and separate beings, with Yahweh being one of seventy sons of Elohim - who were all godly like Elohim - who ruled over Israel. She also contends, once again correctly, that Jesus was not God Almighty - Elohim - manifest in the flesh, but instead the God Yahweh. She further contends that the history and religion of the Henotheistic Hebrews was whitewashed into a Monotheistic faith by king Josiah around 621 B.C. in order to further distance himself and his people from the Polytheistic Gentiles that were the Babylonians. And that more whitewashing occurred when the Greek Catholic Fathers wished to portray Jesus as God the Father in order to placate the Greek and Roman Christians and make themselves Monotheistic. … Five stars!!!!”

    Dr. Barker is a highly praised Methodist scholar (not Mormon, as some have speculated). Her research flies in the face of Jehovah’s Witness belief that Jehovah is God the Father, not Jesus. (Witnesses confuse Jesus with Michael, the archangel, which was a rather bizarre assumption to make in the beginning). Old Testament writers talk about Jehovah being Savior and Judge, while New Testament writers make the same correlations with Jesus. “For the Father judgeth no man,” wrote John, “but has committed all judgment to the Son.”

    This groundbreaking research seems to shatter the very basis of JW theology. But will the Witnesses change that theology to remain consistent with the scriptures, or will they stubbornly hold to their present beliefs based on their outdated and limited exegesis of biblical scriptures?

  • PSacramento

    So what she is saying is that there is GOD - Elohim and then there is YHWH who is know as Jesus after his incarnation as man, correct?

    Jesus is but ONE of God's70 sons?

    How does she explain the ONLY begotten Son issue?

    Also, how does she address the "Lord is one" issue ?

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Jesus is the only Son of God to be begotten in the flesh.

    The Hebrew term "Elohim" or "Eloheim" is pluralistic. One can speak of a quorum and it's singular, yet it can have a number of members. Jesus said of the Twelve, in prayer, "That THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." Here is a statement where Jesus asks his Father to bless the Twelve -- his disciples -- that they may be one in the very same sense that He and His Father are one. The word "Family" also is singular, yet it, too, can have multiple members.

    In Hebrew tradition, there were "gods" (often described as "holy ones"). In the book of Psalms (see chapter 89), it says that God made man a "little lower than the Elohim," which the King James translators translated as "angels." But "Elohim" really means "gods." So God made man a little lower than the gods. The scriptures go on to say that "all of ye are gods, the sons of the Most High." And John said that while it does not appear what we shall be in the world to come, that when we see God, "we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

    How much of the traditions Barker has uncovered is debatable. Some of them are most likely just that: traditions. On the other hand, it's also likely that we lost a great deal of truth in Josiah's reforms. But what is not debatable is that the early Hebrews associated Jehovah as Elyon's pre-eminent Son. Jesus also associate Himself in that role, offending the Jews by so doing, especially when He stated that "even before Abraham" he was the I Am of scripture. The Jews knew exactly what He was saying and they were incensed.

  • EndofMysteries

    I gotta read but I don't think she got it all down right. It's a step to uncovering the truth at the least. I won't go into details cause I'm still figuring it out, but she is missing something very vital or got something really mixed up.

  • designs

    Jewish Historian Nathan Ausbel covers the topics of Philo, Monotheism, Logos, Shechinah, Bat Kol and other 'Jewish' and Christian history in: The Book Of Jewish Knowledge'. Not the 'whitewash' that Smoot speaks of but the real history of a people and their culture and their time.

    Nathan and Margaret should get togehter and have a little meal, say a little Benschen, so nice.

  • EndofMysteries


    Cold Steel -

    I was NOT gonna get deeper with this, but will a little more. Just to show that there is more investigation and possibilities to consider.

    The Ark of the Covenant - does her book explain WHO is the one between them, and WHO the 2 cherubs represent? WHO are the 2 cherubs? I say this, because one of them might be the Yahweh of the old testament, maybe.....or at certain instances.

    Exodus 32:34) And now, come, lead the people to where I have spoken to you of. Look! My angel will go ahead of you, and on the day of my bringing punishment I shall certainly bring punishment upon them for their sin.” - (Who is the angel, and who was speaking to Moses in this instance)

    Jer 7:16 - “And as for you, do not pray in behalf of this people, neither raise in their behalf an entreating cry or a prayer nor beseech me, for I shall not be listening to you. 17 Are you not seeing what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The sons are picking up sticks of wood, and the fathers are lighting the fire, and the wives are kneading flour dough in order to make sacrificial cakes to the ‘queen of the heavens’; and there is a pouring out of drink offerings to other gods for the purpose of offending me. 19 ‘Is it I whom they are offending?’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘Is it not they themselves, for the purpose of shame to their faces?’

    But look what the Israelites said in response.......

    Jer 44:16 - As regards the word that you have spoken to us in the name of Jehovah, we are not listening to you; 17 but we shall positively do every word that has gone forth from our mouth, in order to make sacrificial smoke to the ‘queen of the heavens’ and to pour out to her drink offerings, just as we ourselves and our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, when we used to be satisfied with bread and to be well off, and we did not see any calamity at all. 18 And from the time that we ceased to make sacrificial smoke to the ‘queen of the heavens’ and pour out drink offerings to her we have lacked everything, and by the sword and by the famine we have come to our finish.
    - Why are they saying that??? Also keep in mind I believe all the queen of heavens mentions are only in book of Jeremiah........BUT look what Stephen says in the NT,

    Acts 7:42/43 - (Acts 7:42-43) So God turned and handed them over to render sacred service to the army of heaven, just as it is written in the book of the prophets, ‘It was not to me that YOU offered victims and sacrifices for forty years in the wilderness, was it, O house of Israel? 43 But it was the tent of Mo′loch and the star of the god Re′phan that YOU took up, the figures which YOU made to worship them. Consequently I will deport YOU beyond Babylon.’

    Amos 5:25 - 25 Was it sacrifices and gift offerings that YOU people brought near to me in the wilderness for forty years, O house of Israel? 26 And YOU will certainly carry Sak′kuth YOUR king and Kai′wan, YOUR images, the star of YOUR god, whom YOU made for yourselves.

    PSALMS 2:12 - 12 Kiss the son, that He may not become incensed
    And YOU may not perish [from] the way,
    For his anger flares up easily.
    Happy are all those taking refuge in him.

    Duet 31:7 7 And Moses proceeded to call Joshua and say to him before the eyes of all Israel: “Be courageous and strong, because you—you will bring this people into the land that Jehovah swore to their forefathers to give to them, and you yourself will give it to them as an inheritance. 8 And Jehovah is the one marching before you.

    Duet 32:7 - Remember the days of old,
    CONSIDER the years back from generation to generation;
    Ask your father, and he can tell you;
    Your old men, and they can say it to you.
    8 When the Most High gave the nations an inheritance,
    When he parted the sons of Adam from one another,

    He proceeded to fix the boundary of the peoples
    With regard for the number of the sons of Israel.
    9 For Jehovah’s share is his people;

    Jacob is the allotment that he inherits.
    10 He came to find him in a wilderness land,
    And in an empty, howling desert.
    He began to encircle him, to take care of him,

    There is more I want to show for consideration, but I am not permitted right now. Just realize, if you want the true answer, you may have to seek deeper, don't make quick assumptions.

  • EndofMysteries

    :O :O :O :O :O :O I can't believe what I just realized! Here is a clear cut case of WAR in the bible.....I 'think'.

    In Ex you have Jehovah sending his angel to guide and lead Israel. So it's TWO ENTITIES THERE. Stephen and Amos, also list TWO entities, but they don't call them Jehovah and or his angel. Are they referring to instances in which they 'assumed' it was Jehovah and/or his son, and they are still in the scriptures, OR is that old stuff which was cleared out?

    The reason I ask that too, because of many of the words Jesus said.

  • EndofMysteries

    I 'highly' suggest, anyone who happened to read this thread, unless you've been doing a look of searching and study on this very topic, to NOT let your reasoning and thinking be changed just on what you see any of us post or what anything may hint towards. You may easily get thrown off the right path, or thrown into the wrong path, as of now this isn't something you can just get the whole understanding handed to you on a gold plate.

    Just want to disclose that, because I had no intention of even discussing this topic, but once saw it came up, felt had to least show that the mystery may not be as easy as Jesus and Jehovah are simply the son of the Almighty, may be a lot more to it, and/or something else.

  • PSacramento
    Jesus is the only Son of God to be begotten in the flesh.

    Well...I don't think that was what John meant and certainly not what Paul means in Colossians or Philipians.

    In the book of Psalms (see chapter 89), it says that God made man a "little lower than the Elohim," which the King James translators translated as "angels


    Psalm 89

    A maskil a of Ethan the Ezrahite.

    1 I will sing of the Lord ’s great love forever;

    with my mouth I will make your faithfulness known through all generations.

    2 I will declare that your love stands firm forever,

    that you established your faithfulness in heaven itself.

    3 You said, “I have made a covenant with my chosen one,

    I have sworn to David my servant,

    4 ‘I will establish your line forever

    and make your throne firm through all generations.’ ” Selah

    5 The heavens praise your wonders, O Lord ,

    your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.

    6 For who in the skies above can compare with the Lord ?

    Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings?

    7 In the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared;

    he is more awesome than all who surround him.

    8 O Lord God Almighty, who is like you?

    You are mighty, O Lord , and your faithfulness surrounds you.

    9 You rule over the surging sea;

    when its waves mount up, you still them.

    10 You crushed Rahab like one of the slain;

    with your strong arm you scattered your enemies.

    11 The heavens are yours, and yours also the earth;

    you founded the world and all that is in it.

    12 You created the north and the south;

    Tabor and Hermon sing for joy at your name.

    13 Your arm is endued with power;

    your hand is strong, your right hand exalted.

    14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;

    love and faithfulness go before you.

    15 Blessed are those who have learned to acclaim you,

    who walk in the light of your presence, O Lord .

    16 They rejoice in your name all day long;

    they exult in your righteousness.

    17 For you are their glory and strength,

    and by your favor you exalt our horn. b

    18 Indeed, our shield c belongs to the Lord ,

    our king to the Holy One of Israel.

    19 Once you spoke in a vision,

    to your faithful people you said:

    “I have bestowed strength on a warrior;

    I have exalted a young man from among the people.

    20 I have found David my servant;

    with my sacred oil I have anointed him.

    21 My hand will sustain him;

    surely my arm will strengthen him.

    22 No enemy will subject him to tribute;

    no wicked man will oppress him.

    23 I will crush his foes before him

    and strike down his adversaries.

    24 My faithful love will be with him,

    and through my name his horn d will be exalted.

    25 I will set his hand over the sea,

    his right hand over the rivers.

    26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father,

    my God, the Rock my Savior.’

    27 I will also appoint him my firstborn,

    the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

    28 I will maintain my love to him forever,

    and my covenant with him will never fail.

    29 I will establish his line forever,

    his throne as long as the heavens endure.

    30 “If his sons forsake my law

    and do not follow my statutes,

    31 if they violate my decrees

    and fail to keep my commands,

    32 I will punish their sin with the rod,

    their iniquity with flogging;

    33 but I will not take my love from him,

    nor will I ever betray my faithfulness.

    34 I will not violate my covenant

    or alter what my lips have uttered.

    35 Once for all, I have sworn by my holiness—

    and I will not lie to David—

    36 that his line will continue forever

    and his throne endure before me like the sun;

    37 it will be established forever like the moon,

    the faithful witness in the sky.” Selah

    38 But you have rejected, you have spurned,

    you have been very angry with your anointed one.

    39 You have renounced the covenant with your servant

    and have defiled his crown in the dust.

    40 You have broken through all his walls

    and reduced his strongholds to ruins.

    41 All who pass by have plundered him;

    he has become the scorn of his neighbors.

    42 You have exalted the right hand of his foes;

    you have made all his enemies rejoice.

    43 You have turned back the edge of his sword

    and have not supported him in battle.

    44 You have put an end to his splendor

    and cast his throne to the ground.

    45 You have cut short the days of his youth;

    you have covered him with a mantle of shame. Selah

    46 How long, O Lord ? Will you hide yourself forever?

    How long will your wrath burn like fire?

    47 Remember how fleeting is my life.

    For what futility you have created all men!

    48 What man can live and not see death,

    or save himself from the power of the grave e ? Selah

    49 O Lord, where is your former great love,

    which in your faithfulness you swore to David?

    50 Remember, Lord, how your servant has f been mocked,

    how I bear in my heart the taunts of all the nations,

    51 the taunts with which your enemies have mocked, O Lord ,

    with which they have mocked every step of your anointed one.

    52 Praise be to the Lord forever!

    Amen and Amen.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    You may easily get thrown off the right path, or thrown into the wrong path

    I'm not sure that taking the modern translations of ancient writings at face value is going to lead anyone to any "right" or "wrong" paths. The Bible we have today is a piece of work, a tool, a source of information that reflects the religious and political viewpoint of one nation of people over the course of their early history. As a subjective work, "right" and "wrong" hardly enter into the discussion.

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