Reading peoples hearts

by highdose 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • minimus

    It's done so that the Bible could be interesting.

  • Gopher

    Hi elderelite. As I said before we're familiar with the account. I'm not hear to try to tear down your faith. I'm just saying that the original post raised a question about why Yahweh felt the need to screw around with the mind of his "friend" Abraham? I still haven't heard a satisfying answer about the motivations of Abraham's heavenly friend.

  • tec

    Bohm - I think even the account of Abraham shows us that God does not want anyone killing their sons/daughters in his name. God stopped Abraham; God deplored the people who were burning and sacrificing their children to other gods. So if I heard a voice telling me to do so, I would not believe that it was the voice of God.

    Goldensky - NotaCaptive has another theory regarding the Abraham story. You should read some of her stuff if you haven't already.

    Wasblind - Good guess. I think you're right, actually. Our deeds alone are not enough to show our faith, because some people have deeds just to put on a show. But our faith should be expressing itself through deeds. James said that Abraham's faith and deeds were working together. It also meshes with "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Romans 1:13

    Highdose - Good point to bring up. Makes a person examine things more closely.


  • bohm

    wasblind: those who hear voices and kill dont think "well, i know i am sick and that voice is not really there, im going to do what it says anyway" - they THINK the voice is real, just like abraham.

    If someone were to slice a persons throat today and said God told them to do it I would personally think that they are crazy, not because i didn't have faith, but because one of the commandments says thou shall not kill. That's from God

    Should i understand that to mean that abraham didnt understand killing to be a sin, and therefore it is okay he acted on the voice in his head?

    And abraham did not kill his son. He did not i repeat kill his son

    Well, we certainly agree on that. But the fact remains that abraham prooved his faith by following a voice in his head that commanded him to kill a family member; thats apparently one of the heuristics to determine faitfulness, and i think anyone will understand the story to mean that if Abraham had refused he would not have been found faitfull.

    What i claim is that God put abraham in a situaion where he either had to show an extreme lack of judgement, or be found unfaitfull. i dont think its a test that does anything but weed away the sane followers..

  • tec

    i think anyone will understand the story to mean that if Abraham had refused he would not have been found faitfull.

    I don't know about that. Abraham questioned God's decrees before and was considered His friend.


  • goldensky

    Dear Tammy, I'll definitely look into what Notacaptive has to say about this subject. I'm genuinely interested in understanding what other ways of considering this account can possibly satisfy other reasonable people. Any thread titles you can remember in particular? By the way, I've been wanting to tell you I find you a very sweet and brave person.

  • tec

    ((((Goldensky)))) - thank you for your kind words

    I searched and searched and I cannot find the thread I'm looking for. Don't worry, though. NAC is likely to show up here at some point, and then she can answer that question or direct you, herself. I did find this thread:

    She talks about it in her letters to the WTS.


  • not a captive
    not a captive

    What Genesis 22 means in understanding God has always been a real head trip. We "get" Abraham as Paul said, he figured God could raise him from the dead, but what was God THINKING?!!

    My personal resolution of that question started a chain of meetings and letters that ultimately took me out of the WTS. Once I formally put it in front of the local brothers there was no turning back.

    It is a bit of a read but if anyone cares to, Tammy did post the link above of the correspondence to the local brothers and the Branch and their response. You bet it is an important topic--Jesus kept calling the Jews to do the works of Abraham at the same time he affirmed the surpassing goodness and compassion of his own father in heaven..I told the society that I couldn't in conscience endorse their literature about the test of Abraham.

    I'm going to leave my computer up in my apartment til Tuesday when I have to hand the keys over to my landlady(I'm moving).

    Elderlite, Cover your ears--my own elders told me I could not discuss this with JWs. For over a year I complied with that direction--And ultimately DA'd for the freedom to love and serve God as freely as did Ignorant Abraham and Silly Isaac. But I would be interested to know how it seemed the Society handled the matter I sent to them...

    Tammy,, You've been gone? Good hearing your sweet voice around here again!

  • goldensky

    Dear Tammy, I clicked on Topics started by Notacaptive and couldn't find any related one either, so I'm glad you've directed me to the link.

    I'm very curious to read your correspondence, Notacaptive, and the answers you were given by the brothers. Hugs, OLGA.

  • wasblind

    Abraham questioned God's decrees before and was considered His friend.

    Thanks Tammy, that reminds me of James 1:5, where it says: let him keep on asking God for he gives generously to all and without reproach. This however got me marked at the hall. I'm glad people on this site continue to ask questions that goes to show that our brains have not been paralyzed by the WTS.

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