Clarifications on the 2010 Generation Overlap

by pirata 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • palmtree67
    The generation is said to be anointed ones because in 1914 the only hope was the heavenly hope

    Ummmm.....weren't they wrong on this one? Why would they use a false teaching they once held to prove a new false teaching?

  • sir82

    Good Lord.

    None - absolutely none - of those bullet points above can be supported by any scripture.

    This sets an interesting precedent. At least in the past, when redefining words ("generation", "lying", "blood", etc.) they would at least make a token pass at trying to justify their reasoning with a few scriptures. It was most often specious, disingenuous, or downright irrelevant, but at least it was there.

    They appear to have reached the point where they don't even bother now.

    "[Fill in new light here] means what we say it means. End of story. And remember, you must believe us and obey us or Jehovah will melt your - and your 3 month old child's - eyeballs at Armageddon."

  • Bonnie_Clyde

    Rutherford wrote about the Elijah class and the Elisha class which took over in 1928 from the early anointed. So this is not a new idea because remember the WTS taught that the anointed would go to heaven in 1914.
    Addition: the Elisha class took over in 1919 and was given a "double portion" of what Elijah received.

    Blondie - I'm a bit confused. I remember the "Let Your Name Be Sanctified" had the Elisha class taking over in 1942 when Rutherford died.

  • Mad Dawg
    Mad Dawg

    Exodus 1:6 talks of Joseph and his brothers. These are indeed the same generation. The verse says nothing of children or grandchildren.

  • blondie

    I have to wait till I get home to check...the first period was from 1878 to 1918 (40 years) but Rutherford did not get the "light" till later as he often did. But the transfer of the power from the so-called Elijah class to the Elisha class was supposed to have happened around 1918/1919.

    In his book of 1929, Prophecy Rutherford divided church history into two parts, the first era ended in 1918 (Elijah), the second began (Elisha). When the Elisha era began believers were divided into progressive heavenly classes.

  • flipper

    Overlap schmoverlap . No matter HOW the WT society tries to explain this crazy thinking - they are still pulling nerve endings out of their rear end to think with. A generation is still a 30 year period. Didn't Jesus say , " This generation will not pass away ? " NOT - " These 2 overlapping generations will not pass away , and by the way these 2 make up 1 generation. " Ridiculous. WT society is just controlling these people even more

  • blondie

    Prophecy book 65 Peter mentions "restitution", which would mean a restoring of that which had been taken away or hidden, and would necessarily include the truth that was hidden during the "dark ages". On another occasion Jesus said that 'Elijah must first come and restore all things'. (Matt. 17:11) Elijah was a prophet of God who did a restitution work in his time, in that he restored to the Israelites an understanding of the truth concerning God and their covenant relationship with God. (1 Ki. 18: 39) His work was prophetic and foretold that the Lord would restore his truth to his own people. After Elijah was dead, Malachi prophesied that God would send Elijah the prophet before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. (Mal. 4: 5, 6) That prophecy is proof that another should do a work similar to that done by Elijah, but on a far greater scale and of much more importance. 70 truth when restored to the church would be honesty. In order to remain in the truth and advance with the light of the Lord's presence, honor and glory must be given to God and not to man. This would be a preparatory work.

    Jehovah, through his prophet, foretold this very work of preparing the way. "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in; behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts." (Mal. 3:1) Christ Jesus the great Prophet, God's authoritative spokesman, is the great "messenger" who is sent to execute this order of Jehovah. This order is designated in the Scriptures as 'preparing the way before Jehovah'. This work of preparing the way before Jehovah God would consist of restoring the fundamental truths, and bringing the honest seekers for truth together for the study of the Word of God and for instruction and aid to them in building one another up in the most holy faith. Undoubtedly this is the work concerning which Jesus prophesied when he said that 'Elijah must first come, and restore all things'. Elijah the prophet did a prophetic work of restoring to Israel a knowledge of God, foretelling a work which Christ Jesus would do and in which the faithful body members would have some part.

    That work of restoration, foreshadowed by Elijah's work, began approximately in 1878 and continued until 1918.


    Jehovah caused another prophetic picture to be made foretelling events to come to pass and a work to be done by the true followers of Christ Jesus. Elijah the prophet began to carry forward this prophetic work. Elisha was anointed in the place of Elijah, to carry on and complete the work that Elijah had begun. The work of Elijah foretold the work of restoring the fundamental truths to the true Christians, as hereinbefore stated. (1 Ki. 19:16) The time came when God would take Elijah away. "And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground. And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray


    thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so." — 2 Ki. 2: 8-10.

    Both Elijah and Elisha prophetically foretold God's anointed people carrying on his work on earth after the second coming of the Lord. It was the spirit of the Lord God that caused Elijah to carry on that work. It was the expressed desire of Elisha that he might have a double portion of the Lord's spirit. Undoubtedly this was a prophecy foretelling what would be given to those represented as doing the Elisha work of the church. The condition to receiving the double portion of the spirit was that Elisha should see Elijah when he was taken away. Prophetically this foretold that those who would discern or see the division as to time and work of the church, represented by Elijah and Elisha, would have a double portion of the spirit of the Lord.

    The experiences of Elijah foretold a work of restoring the fundamental truths, and also the work of giving a witness concerning Jehovah and his purposes. Elijah completed the work assigned to him, foreshadowing that a certain period of the church's work would be completed, but not the complete work of giving testimony. The experiences of Elisha foretold a specific witness work that must be done by God's anointed, and that such would be given a "double portion" of the spirit of the Lord and would have a zeal and enthusiasm to give the testimony in the name of Jehovah; and this comports exactly with the prophecy of Joel concerning the pouring out of the holy spirit.

    Elijah and Elisha walked on harmoniously together until a condition arose that separated them, which


    foretold and marked the end of the Elijah work of God's anointed people on earth. "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan." (2 Ki. 2:11-13) The two prophets must therefore represent identically the same class of anointed ones, while their separation represented the end of a specific work and the beginning later of another work in the name of the Lord.

    What are the facts in fulfilment of this prophecy? From 1878 until 1918 God's anointed people on earth, under the direction and supervision of Christ Jesus the present Lord, engaged in a work of proclaiming the message of truth and setting it before those who are seeking the truth. The effect of this work was to gather together the truly consecrated ones for the purpose of study and instruction, and to aid and comfort one another in building them up in the most holy faith.

    The chariot of fire and horses of fire, mentioned in the prophecy, well picture the warring and destructive organization that was made manifest about 1918; while the whirlwind pictured the great trouble that came upon the people by reason of that war. It was in 1918 that the anointed witnesses of God throughout all Christendom were hated and persecuted by the military organization and by the clergy. There came upon God's anointed people great trouble and


    persecution because of their activity in giving testimony to the name of Jehovah. In the spring of 1918 practically all work by the anointed of God on earth was stopped. The taking away of Elijah by the whirlwind foretold that the work represented by him was done; therefore the great trouble that came upon God's anointed people in 1918 marked the end of the specific work of the church foreshadowed by Elijah.

    We know that Elijah was not taken into the literal heaven or presence of Jehovah God; because, after the taking of Elijah, Jesus said: "No man hath ascended up to heaven." (John 3:13) Rather, the prophecy meant that the work of the church which Elijah foretold by his course of action was finished and reported to God in heaven.

    For more than a year thereafter the anointed of God on earth were inactive, and then these faithful people became aware of the fact that there was a great work for them to do, and they began to do it. God did endow his people after 1919 with a "double portion" of his spirit, and sent them forth as his witnesses; and since that time these have been doing a work in the name of the Lord, giving testimony in the earth to God's name, and giving it with a zeal and earnestness never before manifested. This is further proof that God's anointed people must be his witnesses and give testimony in the earth at the present time.

    The work of dividing the people of God is set forth in the prophecies. The work of Elijah and of Elisha were both prophetic. Elijah smote the waters with his mantle, and the waters were divided. (2 Ki. 2:8) Elijah's mantle represented the message of truth, and the smiting work he did foretold the work of the church from 1878 to 1918, during which time many people separated themselves from the denominational church systems and became the true followers of Christ Jesus. Then later Elisha picked up the mantle that had fallen from Elijah and smote the waters, and they were divided. (2 Ki. 2:14) Thus was prophetically foretold a witness work of the church from 1919 forward; and the result is the dividing of the people according to the will of God. By dividing the people is meant affording the people an opportunity to choose whether they wish to place themselves on


    the side of a hypocritical religion or to honestly acknowledge Jehovah as their God.

  • Bonnie_Clyde

    Blondie - I found the info in the "Let Your Name Be Sanctified Book", starting on page 335 and continuing for several pages. It suggests that when Rutherford was on his death bed and he summoned two men of the anointed remnant (who we know to be Fred Franz and Nathan Knorr), that, "It appears that there the Elijah work passed, to be succeeded by the Elisha work." It inferred that Rutherford's death was like crossing the Jordan River. Paragraph 7 "In 1942, in the throes of World War II, the Elijah work passed."

    This book came out in 1961...I remember studying it back then but didn't know it was "new light."

  • OnTheWayOut

    In "Remain in the Secret Place of the Most High", the closing talk of the 2010 District Convention, the following clarifications were made on the 2010 generation overlap.....

    Blah, blah, blah (from them, not you). From WTS's history of re-writing it's history and from what I have already seen from V's WTComments outline that was pulled from youtube and from comments from others on this forum, they may well have attempted to lead the audience to believe all the clarification points you list, but they probably loaded it all with little words like "evidently" and the likes and have already tried to instruct the members not to pass around recordings of these talks.

    The official word is the Watchtower magazine and they are going to load "talks" by C.O.'s and convention speakers with the unofficial word that the first part of the overlap had to be "baptized" before 1914 then they will fall back later on "anointed born by 1914." I haven't read in their brief WT study article that any of that is set in stone, so it is not. Same with the overlap part having to be actual serving contemporaries, anointed at the time. They will fall back later on them just having to have been born before the first part of the generation all died off. That means a baby today will qualify to fit their later definition. I guarantee they will do that unless they totally self-destruct before they get to it.

    We don't know how many are around from the first group

    They already set one bail-out in place. They already laid the groundwork for saying the first part did not even completely pass away (in 2010). That's utter bullshit as, outside of the GB, there are no elderly anointed out there that have been contemporaries with any new anointed. And there are none on the current GB who were baptized by 1915. It's just smoke and mirrors, as most JW's will not think that through.

    They just know they painted "the next generation" of Governing Body into a corner with this and want to leave some wiggle-room for them to salvage this doctrine until a time when all the current GB are dead and buried and never have to account for this silly nonsense.

  • JWdaughter

    You know what is funny? Watching mostly rational sensible logical people try to explain irrational, insensible and illogical concepts and make sense of the rationale and history behind them. Like trying to get to the bones of a seinfeld skit. It just gets loonier the more you discuss it:) Which is probably why I gave up trying to discuss them like a rational person. Makes me nuts. More power to you all who can pick this stuff apart. I don't have the patience anymore, but it amuses me to see the contortions the WT goes to to put them forth.

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