Do other religions change doctrine?

by serenitynow! 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • serenitynow!
    serenitynow!

    After visiting with a couple of JWs over the weekend; and for the first time talking about my true feelings about the org with active JWs other than immediate fam, one of them mentioned something interesting. When I talked about how with the constant changes to beliefs that I find it impossible to believe that the GB can be guided by the HS. So one of the JWs said, "other religions change doctrines around too." Now he and I are both born-ins, so it's not like he's been to various churches, and of course as a good JW, has not done independent research on the specific doctrines of other faiths. He couldn't give me an example. It was always my understanding (as a JW) that churches don't change their fundamental beliefs; sometimes they change their views on certain things like birth control, homosexuality, etc, kind of changing with the times.

    What do you all know about this? Is it a common occurance for clergy in different faiths(Christian and non) to switch beliefs/doctrines, or their understanding of the scriptures? If you were a Catholic, but didn't go for years, could you just walk into a church one day for mass, and not miss a step?

    Has the WTBTS somehow told JWs that other religions change doctrine to make their constant changes seem not so bad?

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    The Catholic religion doesn't change doctrine very often and when they do, it's a pretty big deal. When they did away with Lent a few decades ago that was huge. I'm not sure about other religions though or how often they change. One thing I do know though, is that the JW's used to say that it was surely a sign of false religion when they make major changes. I seem to remember there was something in WT or Awake magazine when the Lent change happened but I can't remember the wording...sorry...My parents were quite scornful of that change which is why it's burned on my brain. Sadly, the irony was lost on them..

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    I don't know where poopsiecakes got his/her info but, no, the Catholic church didn't do away with Lent. I'm Catholic and I observe Lent every year, including this past Lenten season. Some of the rules for fasting were lessened after Vatican II but we certainly do observe Lent very seriously.

    That being said, no, the Catholic Church does not change its dogmas. That is why there will never be a woman ordained a priest. That is why artificial contraception can never be accepted. That's why abortion can never be accepted. Here is an article from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

    "Dogma and the Church

    Revealed truths become formally dogmas when defined or proposed by the Church. There is considerable hostility, in modern times, todogmatic religion when considered as a body of truths defined by the Church, and still more when considered as defined by the pope. The theory of dogma which is here expounded depends for its acceptance on the doctrine of the infallible teaching office of the Church and of theRoman pontiff. It will be sufficient to notice the following points, (1) the reasonableness of the definition of dogma; (2) the immutability ofdogma; (3) the necessity for Church unity of belief in dogma (4) the inconveniences which are alleged to be associated with the definition ofdogma.

    (1) Against the theory of interpretation of Scripture by private judgement, Catholics regard as absolutely unacceptable the view that Godrevealed a body of truths to the world and appointed no official teacher of revealed truth, no authoritative judge of controversy; this view is as unreasonable as would be the notion that the civil legislature makes laws and then commits to individual private judgment the right and theduty of interpreting the laws and deciding controversies. The Church and the supreme pontiff are endowed by God with the privilege ofinfallibility in discharge of the duty of universal teacher in the sphere of faith and morals; hence we have an infallible testimony that thedogmas defined and delivered to us by the Church are the truths contained in Divine revelation.

    (2) The dogmas of the Church are immutable. Modernists hold that religious dogmas, as such, have no intellectual meaning, that we are not bound to believe them mentally, that they may be all false, that it is sufficient if we use them a guides to action; and accordingly they teach that dogmas are not immutable, that they should be changed when the spirit of the age is opposed to them, when they lose their value as rules for a liberal religious life. But in the Catholic doctrine that Divine revelation is addressed to the human mind and expresses real objective truth,dogmas are immutable Divine truths. It is an immutable truth for all time that Augustus was Emperor of Rome and George Washington first President of the United States. So according to Catholic belief, these are and will be for all time immutable truths — that there are three Persons in God, that Christ died for us, that He arose from the dead, that He founded the Church, that He instituted the sacraments. We may distinguish between the truths themselves and the language in which they are expressed. The full meaning of certain revealed truths has been only gradually brought out; the truths will always remain. Language may change or may receive a new meaning; but we can always learn what meaning was attached to particular words in the past.

    (3) We are bound to believe revealed truths irrespective of their definition by the Church, if we are satisfied that God has revealed them. When they are proposed or defined by the Church, and thus become dogmas, we are bound to believe them in order to maintain the bond of faith. (See H ERESY).

    (4) Finally, Catholics do not admit that, as is sometimes alleged, dogmas are the arbitrary creations of ecclesiastical authority, that they are multiplied at will, that they are devices for keeping the ignorant in subjection, that they are obstacles to conversions. Some of these are points of controversy which cannot be settled without reference to more fundamental questions. Dogmatic definitions would be arbitrary if there were no Divinely instituted infallible teaching office in the Church; but if, as Catholics maintain, God has established in His Church an infallible office,dogmatic definitions cannot be considered arbitrary. The same Divine Providence which preserves the Church from error will preserve her from inordinate multiplication of dogmas. She cannot define arbitrarily. We need only observe the life of the Church or of the Roman pontiffs to see that dogmas are not multiplied inordinately. And as dogmatic definitions are but the authentic interpretation and declaration of the meaning ofDivine revelation, they cannot be considered devices for keeping the ignorant in subjection, or reasonable obstacles to conversions, on the contrary, the authoritative definition of truth and condemnation of error, are powerful arguments leading to the Church those who seek thetruth earnestly."

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm

    I can't answer about other churches, just my own.

    StAnn

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    Sorry StAnn, I was referring to the no meat on Fridays Lent, not the yearly observance. Other than that, I don't know of any doctrine that has been changed...

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Serenitynow told us, "...So one of the JWs said, "other religions change doctrines around too..."

    So what is that supposed to prove? That other religions are guided by Jehovah's Magic Spirit, or that they're not?

    Sometimes JWs fail to think through their arguments before they step into a big soft pile of "other religions have problems too."

    The point is this: Witnesses say that their religion is DIFFERENT. So why is it THE SAME as those other "false" religions?

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    Poopsiecakes, still no meat on Fridays in Lent. Hence the plethora of fish frys on Fridays at local parishes around the nation.

    There were some changes in customs, such as you no longer have to fast every Friday of Lent, just Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, even though you still have to abstain from meat. However, what doesn't change in the Church are the dogmas which you must believe in order to get salvation. Unfortunately, every goal post is moveable in the WTS. There are no absolute constants, which is very distressing to the JWs.

    StAnn

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    So true, StAnn. Moving the goalposts is the perfect analogy. My sister left the JW's around 30 years ago and things are so different it's not even funny. I left 6 years ago and things are even more different!! Ridiculous...

  • Terry
    Terry

    Reality is non-contradictory.

    A thing is what it is. Not what it isn't.

    Any doctrine which descibes a contradictory reality is a false doctrine.

    Why is this the case?

    GOD represents the author of reality. Religion is the agency of God. Religion makes pronouncements with the authority of God behind it.

    Any of those pronouncements which contradict reality are automatically bogus.

    CHANGES in doctrine are signals.

    Doctrinal changes signal nullification of the agency between God and the religion itself.

    Why? God is immutable, unchangeable and totally in charge (according to these very religions which purport to represent deity.)

    Jehovah's Witness make claims about themselves concerning the Authority behind their teachings. The author of their teachings is identified as Jehovah. Any change in their teachings would signal contradiction to their claim of authority.

    Men err; God cannot.

    Distortion, corruption, fraud and misrepresentation are the only explanation for changes in doctrines which represent God's authority.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Your friend is correct that other religions change doctrine, but is on dangerous ground with that line of reasoning. Either way, there are two conclusions that he will not want to admit to.

    1. Other religions do change doctrine as well, so the Watchtower is not unique.

    2. Other religions do not change doctrine because they believe they have it correct. The Watchtower changes doctrine because they have it wrong.

    Catholics follow the concept of continual revelation. They believe God continues to guide the Church, so new doctrine can be revealed to current Popes, hence constant changes over the centuries both in practices and doctrine.

    Protestants follow the concept of sola scriptura; that they only believe what was in the Bible. Therefore, they are less likely to change doctrine. However, since the Bible is so open to interpretation, Protestant religions also change doctrine. For instance, in the late 1990's Anglicans stopped teaching that hell is a literal place.

    The Watchtower is somewhere in the middle. They claim sola scripture by stating the Bible canon was closed and contains all we need. Yet the leaders then say that God is continuing to reveal the interpretation of scripture, so they still can change doctrine and practices.

  • bob1999
    bob1999

    Some other religions change doctrice but most didn't claim that they are the "only" truth to start with.

    That's the difference and a big one.

    If the WTS is going to claim that it's the only true religion, then they should have got it right in the first place.

    Not the second, third, forth, fifth...........never time.

    Peace

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