I think you need to make it clear to all of your children that they shouldn't participte in anything behind your back. Then I think you should also make it clear to your wife's family. They should also be told that they have no right to be offended, because they tried to usurp your headship over your children. Their ignoring you and your family only proves that they're only interested in one thing; converts.
This is my story
by SAHARA 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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MMXIV
SAHARA, very interesting story, your gut feel has been pretty good. It seems that you have been fairly accommodating and non judgemental about your wife's JW family. From their point of view you were only ever acceptable company while you were
a) willing to accept occasional witnessing (magazines left around) b) they could count their time on you c) it was a show for your wife on what happy families you'd all be in the truth d) a potential JW.
Stopping that sneaky and rather dishonest method of studying with your child would have, as you said, made you an opposer in their eyes. No need to keep up the pretence of being nice to you, they'd rather punish you and make you feel their disapproval.
Your wife seems to prefer to avoid confrontations and is happier taking the path of least resistance, or rather the path that least offends people. I wonder if your wife tells her family how irregular she is at meetings. The fact she is irregular shows she has issues with it. If she does ever discuss those issues or her family - listen, listen, listen and ask the odd question that doesn't require a response but will get her to think.
MMXIV
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Jim_TX
Okay... I tried to reply earlier - and my DSL modem went wonkie... hopefully, I can make another post, from memory, and get most of my thoughts back into a posting...
Welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around and learn.
With regards to your situation, you have already received lots of good advice from others. Here is my take.
You mention that you were raised a Catholic - but do not believe that religion is the one for you. Perhaps you could go looking for one that does make sense. It appears that you need one, from what I gather from your words. Maybe I didn't quite read them correctly.
If you are, then go and find a religion that makes sense to you (keep in mind that you may not agree 100% with what is taught, but most reasonable religions - from what I understand - are okay with that.), and then take your wife with you to one of their Sunday (or whenever) meetings.
It appears that your wife is also not sure about the JWs, and may be also looking - but just no sure how, or where.
As for your vacations, you should be going places that you enjoy. Break the habit of gong to the relatives each year. If you want to have a family reunion, then suggest going camping, and invite them to meet you there. That gets them away from their 'home turf' and onto neutral ground, so to speak.
Good Luck,
Jim TX
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SAHARA
cyberjesus - Paragraphs, got it...
jamiebowers - My son, who's now 18, has been made aware and agrees. However, I believe he's been told to beware that others may try to discourage him from learning the truth. I played right into that. I talked to him some about how mom and I just disagree about some things but it's very very difficult trying to keep him out of the religion without bashing it.
MMXIV - You hit the nail right on the head. Once I left no doubt how I really feel about this religion, they dropped me like a hot potato. It's strange in a way because my wife has tried many times in the past to go to meetings, and I have a couple. The very first meeting I went to was about 15 years ago and it just seemed so strange to me. Everyone seemed like programmed robots, and it was quite boring. Afterwards everyone came to shake my hand and greet me. I use to be involed in a multi-level marketing business years ago and we use to do the same thing to get the new recruits to think how wonderful everyone was to make it more attractive. I saw through this when it happend to me. There seems to be a lot of similarities in me Multi leven marketing experience to what the JW's do to gain recruits... Sometimes I think that God allowed me to go through that Multi level business to see through the smoke screens that I see with the Watchtower, so many similarities. I think I post some of those some time...
JIM_TX - I haven't given up my faith in the Catholic Church, although I'm sure many here have their reasons for rejecting it, but for myself I'm still in the process of discernment. I've made it clear that our summer vacation will be as a family, just us, and I kind of got a blank stare from my wife although she agreed but I could tell I struck a cord.
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ziddina
SAHARA, you stated, "I talked to him some about how mom and I just disagree about some things but it's very very difficult trying to keep him out of the religion without bashing it...."
Regarding your son, and noting that he's 18, I would encourage him to attend college, if possible. Someone on board made a very sensible suggestion; attend a local community college first, which is much less expensive than the 4-year colleges - that is, if college tuition is an issue for you...
Two things I sincerely and fervently HOPE FOR is that your son is naturally ambitious, and that he is sharp enough to perceive that "anti-college" propaganda that the JWs push... I have observed several situations mentioned on this board wherein some elder or brother in the congrergation has deluded himself [or herself...] into thinking that the WTBTS is neutral or even encourages young JWs to obtain a college education...
NOTHING could be further from the truth!!!
Emphasize the shakey job market, emphasize the advantages of a college education - higher wages, better opportunities for advancement, the extra life-and-health insurance perks that often come with the employment that higher education qualifies a person for, plus the extra security that one has as one approaches retirement...
Besides, if he attends college, that should improve his thinking skills and discernment.
Another suggestion... If you could interest him in the subject of con-artists... NOT cults, unfortunately, because that would be seen as an outright attack on the WTBTS... But con-artists... If he becomes familiar with the scams they run on people, he might [hopefully!!] notice some uncomfortable parallels with the WTBTS...
Wishing you the very best outcome in dealing with your situation... Zid
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SAHARA
ziddina - Thank you for your suggestions. My son is attending a very good community college in our area that I am paying tuititon for, not too expensive, and it is tough budgeting that in, but I made a very conscious decision to encourage him to be some what ambitious and to get educated. However, his JW uncle was in computer aided drafting and because he seems to be a teenager himself trapped in a 35 year old body who has always tried to influence my son, my son was taking drafting classes. However, he wants to drop that class now because he says it's just not what he wants to do. He isn't working now either because the economy is pretty bad here too and there just isn't enough work. I've told him not to stress himself out with that right now because it's education I want him to focus on right now and I help pretty much give him a little cash now and then to go to movies with friends and stuff like that, not much, just enough. All of your suggestion I pretty much am already doing. I've had many conversations with him about the realities of life and what it takes to not only provide for yourself, but also for a family that he wants to have some day. I'm an insurance agent in California and I make a decent income but he sees that even with that, we are by no means well off, just doing ok. He has no clue about the Anti-education stance the Watchtower teaches. Even my wife has said, in so many words, that he better keep it up and continue his ed, but I don't know if she just says that because she knows that's what I want, even though the Watchtower teaches otherwise. To be perfectly honest, I've studied the teachings of the Society so hard the last couple of years, that in my gut I truely believe I know more about the doctrines and their history than she does.
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ziddina
Hmm.... How about having your son check out some of the videos on YouTube? Many of those are actual recordings - unaltered recordings - of actual talks given at the WTBTS' assemblies...
"Smokin' in the Graveyard" has just posted a couple of videos he'd saved off of some JW CD... They were pretty effective in showing what the WTBTS' methods of sly persuasion used to prevent JW youths from getting a college education are...
I'll be back in a sec - will try to find those videos...
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ziddina
[It's a three-part video, but so far "Smokin' " has only found two...]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr6vLfGLB4k&playnext_from=TL&videos=jjfSOE3MaqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0w3kMs3uhg&playnext_from=TL&videos=jjfSOE3MaqM
These videos are pretty corny... Awfully unsophisticated... Superficially artless yet the 'cultic' mentality is a highly-visible undercurrent...
Let me see if I can find some of those original speeches from the WTBTS' assemblies...
Zid
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ziddina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8kpaq1mkgI&feature=related
And here - if I can post the full series - is a complete talk on the dangers of college education...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp_3SoXeyB0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQmACy3W8dY&feature=related
And I'm throwing this next one in, just because of the flagrant hypocrisy displayed by the WTBTS within the mentioned article...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPlhXI812yc
Enjoy??
Zid
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not a captive
SAHARAH,
You sound as though you have maintained a pretty fair balance in your family between firmness and freedom in allowing religious choice in the family.
When I was Catholic and then later when I became a Witness I was used to the idea that there would be a Pope or a Governing Body. But I hope you will give some personal thought to what Jesus teaches in relation to having others mediate your faith. The result of buying into these kinds of religious organizations is detachment from God.
Ask yourself if it matters that both the Catholics and the Witnesses ultimately agree on one thing: you are not able to understand God's will without some special men of God telling you what is the right and the wrong thing to say and do to be right with God.
Ask yourself if you really believe that is true.
Ask God through Jesus to help you understand what got Jesus killed.
I am convinced that a factor was that Jesus was just too happy with God. Jesus made it too easy for ignorant poor people to become God's friend. When religious men lost control of the "faithful" they killed Jesus. Now when religious men sense the spirit of Jesus in the "faithful" they will try to kill that spirit. Because it is a personal relationship--not one that they are managing--it threatens the leaders.
The word "church" is from the Greek ekklesia which means "called out", "assembly" or "congregation". Jesus called us out away from mindless formalism. He called us to a living relationship with his father.
Really read the gospels as freely as you possibly can. And ask yourself if you want to give up the relationship that Jesus died to give you. Maeve