Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit 159 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    I accepted a Bible study with the witnesses. It was thrilling to feel that finally I could be part of a warm Christian brotherhood while my family sagged like a cardboard box on a rainy day. I was, as I said before, as solid a Christian Witness as I could be.I tried. I was a good friend to my sisters, not a gossip, a big-time stayer-at-home on our rough little farm, as good a wife as I could be to a husband as eccentric as myself, and I worked sometimes part-time then fulltime with a house more-or-less full of kids. In these past 21 years I have been in good congregations, a sad one and one so rotten to the core that I sent a letter to the Branch.

    The Witnesses emphasized the binding unity of Truth. Jesus taught this. Witnesses that I most loved tried to live by it. What does it mean, live by the Truth? When I first studied I learned there were these big doctrinal differences that separated Witnesses from everyone else. But I was convinced the Witnesses were the folks that complied with first century Christianity in every way. The harder life got for me the more I studied my Bible. I couldn't possibly keep up with all the literature we got but I maintained my bible reading somehow. I knew that that was the most important.

    Once I looked up the Hebrew words for male and female and I could not help but discover the words the bible people spoke showed how corrupt their attitudes were, say, toward women. It lead me to realize how important it was to understanding issues beyond the superficial in my reading. And naturally I began to wonder why, if the Bible put "burnt offering and sacrifice" together in a sentence it must mean something, like they aren't the same thing . My study and questions grew over time. I wondered who began this animal killing for God. It was men. I began to think that God had got a bum rap from bloody minded men. I have had years of meditation and study on this matter of Abraham's test. But in the end the critical points are as much ones common sense and faith as they are of scholarship. In fact common sense and faith had done everything for Abraham. If Jesus and Jehovah tell us what God is like, and Jesus holds us to believing the Scriptures, then it is wrong to put a word in Jehovah's mouth that he didn't say and didn't mean. Jehovah never commanded Abraham to slaughter/ sacrifice Isaac even if Abraham tried to do it. If the brotherhood demands me to cover for their bad in this, I will not.

    If the brothers told you to repeat the false story from the literature and NOT read the Bible's own words what would you think?

    I've heard you use the expression "churchoids"--That is was I would call it now. Not a brotherhood.

    You might be disappointed in me, MadJ, but I would rather not disappoint Jehovah.

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    MadJ, I missed your post while I wrote mine. I really do understand your sense of sad outrage that someone would leave the Organization-- and I say "Organization" instead of "Brotherhood" Because the warm brotherhood changed abruptly when I had this matter about Jehovah to deal with. The change from "fellow worker" to "suspect" was dramatic. There were a few of instances of--I'll call it mild--bullying to shame me or make me feel "obsessive". But I was only concerned for Jehovah and my conscience.

    At one time all we were concerned with was Bible truth, to be faithful witnesses. Or so it seemed to me. But thinking how the immediate reaction was not to go to the scriptures to see what was reasonablebut to ask how I regarded the Faithful Slave was upsetting as I said earlier.

    That's why I didn't say I left the brotherhood. Because it turned into a corporate/organization/religion instead of my brothers.

    And yes Abraham misunderstood Jehovah. But what does the temple have to do with anything? Whole-hearted dedication to God doesn't need a temple--just our body is enough for Him. Roman 12:1,2

    Let's keep talking, Maeve

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    Mindmelda--You had a blazing bad bunch for a congregation didn't you? You know, I had some of my best days as a witness in a little rural congregation that had an outhouse when I first met with them. But I have had fellowship to match it at a little unaffiliated Chinese Christian Church around the corner from where I live now. It think when folks --trying to be like Christ--are "getting it" the brotherhood is great. But corporate Christianity is a dead body that can poison even the brothers and sisters who do seem to "get it".
    Maeve

  • Leprechaun
    Leprechaun

    Yes it is hurtful to talk to family or friends about anything because it seems it always ends up with hurt feelings, them trying so hard to count time on you, or make me feel like basically shit. I hope I never did that to anyone when I was a Witnesses.

  • Leprechaun
    Leprechaun

    Basically being a Jehovah’s Witness and worshiping Jehovah is two different things entirely, now that I am out of the influences of the Witnesses, I feel I can worship god in spirit and truth unfiltered by the Sociality. Why should the conscious of a few men rule my god given conscious, that god gave to each man and women. I guess it boils down to the fact the Society's chief aim is to be a cult and make us all puppets rather than true Christians. anyone that can not see this fact just needs more time being abused by the Borg.

  • Leprechaun
    Leprechaun

    Sociality" means Society I did not spell it right, sorry.

  • theMadJW
    theMadJW

    NAC- am buried with work- so don't have much time!

    Abraham is the ONLY one referred to as Jehovah's FRIEND! Close friends KNOW and UNDERSTAND each other- so Abraham KNEW what God had meant. Finding NO animal sent by God, he was about to offer his son.

    You simply read more into it than what was there!

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    Sorry MadJ---- I only read what the Bible says. The Society puts a different word in there.The Society cannot have it both ways on their research. If the Bible text did NOT say zebach--sacrifice--and Abraham took care to express it with the word Olah AND the Society maintains that Jephthah knew that there was no way he would "sacrifice" his daughter---- then how did Jephthah learn what making a burnt offering of his daughter would entail? Because He knew the Abraham story. Check out the Bible story book. When the account is about Judges 11 it uses the right words "burnt offering" not the word "sacrifice" but it doesn't do the same for Abraham.

    There is no good reason for the WTS to make a big deal out of understanding the test as being consonant with Jehovah's attitude toward child sacrifice when the actual words do not demand we see him as a sadistic trickster.

    No good reason! If you know of a good reason, a scriptural one, tell me. Don't tell me that Abraham as God's friend knew he should kill his son. Why can't I say that I am God's friend ,too,and I know that this is a slander?

  • not a captive
    not a captive

    Hey, Leprechaun! Yes. If we worship God in spirit and truth we are not puppets but we do listen to God's voice. We may misunderstand but God helps us to stand. I would infinitely rather stand on my own conscience before Jehovah than on anyone else's. Even if they are smarter than I am. Maeve

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I'm a never-JW married to one, for seven years now. Every once in a while my husband or an ambitious pioneer will take a shot at me. In an attempt at reason, I even undertook a book study with a JW several years ago. I documented the result, in the archives here somewhere. It did not go well. After several weeks my study partner decided to part ways. She had determined that I was "not ready". The intent of these studies is not to have an open, intelligent dialogue with the most reasonable arising victor. It is to sell the Witness lifestyle. No foreign ideas allowed.

    More and more I am only interested in having real conversation with people. That eliminates the possibility of a genuine doctrinal discussion with a JW.

    With my husband I've resorted to one-liners that quickly shut him down. With witnesses, I quickly change the subject. When we talk about weather or hobbies, these lovely witness folk turn in to real people and we have had many pleasant conversations.

    Lately I've had to step up my game a little, as my attendance at the memorial and the recent assembly has given them "hope". But of course they won't risk a direct inquiry. So I am told that I am "missed" and they hope to "see" me at a meeting again soon. Now they are inquiring third-hand through my hubby how I "enjoyed" the assembly. I won't give him the satisfaction. When he asked what I liked most about the assembly, I replied, "The lunch was nice." Rolling his eyes and moaning, he asked if I could give him something more. "I am not a ripe peach ready for the picking", I replied, and I reminded him that if they sat down and asked what I really believed, he would be sorry. Like a good little witness fearful of the facts, he backed off. He's still chuckling over the "ripe peach" comment, though.

    I would say this has been my most effective deterrent. Looking the witness dead in the eyes, I ask them if they really want to know what I think? Then I switch to a safe subject.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit