Really what is a miracle? Isn't it just an event the explanation for which we do not understand?
Would miracles cure atheism?
by hamilcarr 53 Replies latest jw friends
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JWoods
Well, most of the miracles that the Catholic Church claims for sainthood are pretty lackluster compared to a Lazarus event.
You know - some idol sculpture gets red stains (rust?) on the hands and feed just like Christ on the cross or some such.
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sabastious
Miracles have always been a sham, and always will be a sham.
For me to believe in one it would have to be 100% provable, which is pretty damn hard.
-Sab
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Elsewhere
First we would need to define "miracle".
What exactly constitutes a "miracle"?
What type of test or measurement must be conducted in order to confirm that a given event is/was in fact a bonafide "miracle" and not a natural phenomenon or hoax?
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PSacramento
I think the last few posts are on the mark.
Nothing that God can do can truly prove his existence, no "miracle", no "nothing".
Of course there is always the "second coming", but if that is what is needed to prove his existence then, well, that'll be too late anyways so...
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leavingwt
It worked for Jules.
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SacrificialLoon
If I saw a wad of pasta floating in the air giving everyone free beers I'd think that was pretty miraculous.
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undercover
If God and/or Jesus parked their spaceship over a major city and either A) beamed down in person or B) transmitted their image and message through a shipsize HD TV screen mounted on the underside of the ship (reference tv show "V"), then I'd sit up and take notice. Until then...
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Terry
Let's look at Jesus ressurecting Lazarus.
Let's for argument sake, say it happened.
It was an overwhelming fact for all those that saw it, a man dead for days, ressurected.
Pretty heavy shit dude !
Some still didn't believe and those that didn't see it, didn't believe it and years, decades, centuries later, it never happened.
I'm afraid you've given yourself a healthy dose of WHY we are probably dealing with fiction.
Follow my lead here, if you will......
Raising a person from the dead IN THE REAL WORLD would leave nobody with any possible way they could not believe. Why? Because it had REALLY HAPPENED!
However, if you are dealing with a made up story---it is easy to include in that story a functional reason why such a person as Jesus who raised a man from the dead could ever have witnesses who did NOT believe!
Get it?
The Jesus stories (orally transmitted) each time they were told to somebody new would encounter some argument/objection. The next telling would have to include a built-in bridge getting past that argument.
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hamilcarr
No. They did not convert the people of the first century to Christianity and would not do so today.
But how could you remain an atheist when you see someone being raised from the dead?