Non-Fundamentalists: Is Evangelism Necessary? (page 4)

leavingwt

PSac -- Just to be clear, I was not using the word "reinvent" as something negative. In fact, I admire your 'eyes open' approach to it all, even while I'm in a different place, spiritually.

PSacramento

PSac -- Just to be clear, I was not using the word "reinvent" as something negative. In fact, I admire your 'eyes open' approach to it all, even while I'm in a different place, spiritually.

Oh, I knew that, I didn't take it the wrong way.

I think John is trying to use it in a "negative" way, simple because he has been exposed to extremissim a bit too much and things that doctrines make up a faith and that they are set in stone.

It probably makes it easier for him to pain ALL christians with the same brush so those that don't fall into place with his views, he has to justifiy it somehow.

Not a critique of John, just something I notice with most atheists that have a set view of "religious people".

leavingwt

I think John is trying to use it in a "negative" way, simple because he has been exposed to extremissim a bit too much and things that doctrines make up a faith and that they are set in stone.

Could be. I also think that he has learned that a significant percentage of active believers are not aware of the actual revisions that have taken place within 'Christianity'. Which is to say, he definitely wants there to be MORE DATA out there, so that people can make better decisions. Since I was once trapped in a fundamentalist group, I can sympathize with that sentiment, while ackknowledging, of course, that WT was almost entirely destructive, which isn't true of many Christianities today.

PSacramento

I think that that way too many ACTIVE atheists (those that feel the need to "disprove" God) use the extreme to make their point and that is always the wrong way to go.

Extreme groups like the JW's do need a wake up call, but as you know, the only time the wake up call happens is when there is already doubt brewing under the surface.

Those that are well under the "spell" can't be reached because they don't want to be.

The other thing is that, people that leave and extreme group like the JW's, seem to tend to "float" to another extreme view.

As JW's there was GOD, period !!!

As atheists they now say, there IS NO GOD, PERIOD !!!

Same extremissim, different focus.

I think that many extreme atheist think they are "saving" people by showing them the "silliness" or the "stupidity" of believing in a fairy tale.

Of course the extreme believer feel the exact same way.

Neither one of them sees how exactly a like they are.

leavingwt

PSac -- Culture is such a huge part of belief, that simply pointing out errors to a JW or person of any faith is of little value.

Regarding ex-JWs being atheists, I won't go into that topic. It's been beat to death. I'm on record as saying, IMHO, victims of spiritual abuse are more likely to question faith than folks who have only had a positive experience with church. However, I can assure you that MOST of the ex-JW atheists on this board are not atheists because of any knee-jerk reaction or "father issues".

snowbird

Deeds, not words!

In the Western world, practically everyone has access to the Bible.

No one in these parts has a valid excuse to be ignorant of Jesus of Nazareth and His teachings, so imo, there is no need for the in-your-face or door-to-door preaching that some resort to doing.

May I relate something to you that used to trouble me greatly?

My oldest daughter has 6 kids; all of them have behavior problems - ALL OF THEM. Yet, for some inexplicable reason they seem to do better when they're with me.

Once, I asked myself, "how can you go knocking on other people's doors when your daughter and g'kids are knocking on the doors of your heart?"

I subsequently put down my field service bag and picked up the necessary load of helping with my g'kids. We have all been blessed by my decision. To me, that is true evangelism!

Thanks for a great thread, LWT.

Sylvia

leavingwt

Sylvia,

You're welcome.

Everyone should have a grandmother as thoughtful as you!

-LWT

PSacramento

However, I can assure you that MOST of the ex-JW atheists on this board are not atheists because of any knee-jerk reaction or "father issues".

I didn'tmean to imply that was the issue, what I meant is that, people that come from a "extreme outlook" tend to be more "extreme" in their views and as such, someone leaving behind an extreme faith and becoming an atheist tends to be a "vocal" atheist or an "extreme" one.

It seems that, and since I don't know anyone here personally I will speak for the 3 Atheists that were part of "fundamentalist religions" that Ido KNOW, once they left thier extreme religion they either found another one or "shunned" religion altogtehr and see NOTHINg of value in it, of vcourse by "it" I mean THEIR VIEW of relgion that is still clouded by their exposure to the extremissim that they were a part of.

parakeet

Terry: John 20:29 (New International Version)

29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Perhaps it should read, "hopelessly gullible are those who have not seen and yet believed." Why shouldn't we get a few miracles, too? What are we anyway, chopped liver?

PSacramento: As atheists they now say, there IS NO GOD, PERIOD !!!

Maybe some atheists say that, but the informed atheist says, "I do not believe there is sufficient and convincing evidence in the existence of a God. If you can show me sufficient and convincing evidence, I will be convinced."

PSacramento: I think that many extreme atheist think they are "saving" people by showing them the "silliness" or the "stupidity" of believing in a fairy tale.

I'm not looking to "save" anyone. I'm just asking them to think before saying something like "someone leaving behind an extreme faith and becoming an atheist tends to be a "vocal" atheist or an "extreme" one." I never talk about my atheism unless I'm attacked as you do here. And you might also consider the many atheists who were never part of an "extreme faith."

PSacramento

I'm not looking to "save" anyone. I'm just asking them to think before saying something like "someone leaving behind an extreme faith and becoming an atheist tends to be a "vocal" atheist or an "extreme" one." I never talk about my atheism unless I'm attacked as you do here. And you might also consider the many atheists who were never part of an "extreme faith."

You shouldn't feel attacked and I apologise if you do, it was not my intent.

I was generalizing, hence I didn't say ALL, but you feel that what I said was inapproriate and I apologise.

I know a few atheists that were never religious or part of any religion, extreme or otherwise and they have a very "live and let live" view, the more militant ones I know were all from "hardliner" religions so it seems I might be being overly bias.

Non-Fundamentalists: Is Evangelism Necessary?

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