OBVES & JWs If Jesus were not God,then Expl...

by Adonai438 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • Adonai438

    Respectfully, you are right and wrong :)
    Both arguments seem intelligent but studying God's word will bring you truth. I don't claim to be infallible or someone to be followed- no Christian does but Christians have experienced God and he is wonderful- his word is not that hard to understand although some would want us to think it is. No work can save you as we've discussed previously but faith alone. Faith in the true God my friend.
    Our faith is only as good as what we put it in. So study the Bible and Love God and God will be fair. God bless DW! <><

  • clash_city_rockers

    Way to go Adonia

    Let me add a little...

    1. How can you give an acount to Paul's doxology in Romans 9:5 who Paul says of Christ "the eternally blessed God, amen"

    2. Why does Paul use the term God our savior? in Titus 2:13 referring to Christ and again in 3:4-6.

    3. 2 Peter 1:1 God and savior Jesus Christ.

    4. Who is the Alpha and Omega/First and Last in Revelation 1:8; 1:11; 1:18? and yet that is a title only ascribed to God Is 41:4


    It is not written that we need God's guidance to understand the Bible? Is not not written : "here a little and there a little;precept unto precept" when we search for the truth-1 Corinthians 2.6-16; Isaiah 28.10 ?

    It is written that God rested on the seventh day ?
    Did God rest from creating if he creates stars,clouds,rain,frost ect?
    Please ,answer me these questions? It is there "And God rested ..
    - Genesis 2.2


    are you wiser than Jesus who had said that the Father is the only true God !!! You introduced three persons which are one God and that is not true as Jesus says one person from these three persons is the true God.And this is eternal life to know you (Father) as teh only true God .. So two other persons are excluded from being God at all.
    Go to the school children and explain my point and yours.
    What you are saying is contrary to the Bible.God is not in three persons or three persons he is in thousands of his true worshippers. So do you want to tell me now there are thousands gods or Gods?
    God is one and in due time he became the Father - Psalm 2.7/God was not always the Father he took upon this function in some time.


    Let's use common sense here as a 10-year old child can understand that:

    You say God is three persons or in three persons:
    the Father , the Son ,the Holy Ghost

    Jesus and I say that the Father only is the true God whoch is on the left side above .
    So who is right? You or Jesus and me ? John 17.3;20.17


    You got it all mixed up !! Bible is hard to understand and that iw why we have so many interpretations of the Bible.Why do,then, theologians say that we cannot understand what is the Trinity and you also seem to confirm that despite of your statement it is not hard to understand the Bible.
    Also are you claiming that a person who has a faith in Christ whether he believes in literal hell or not doesn't matterIf so, why not all believers are together and why don't you join one time one Christian denomination and another time (one week later) yet another denomination and so on; to prove the views don't matter but the faith in Jesus is all what counts ?

  • Kenneson

    Quote: "...and he called Moses God and the people recognize that and Jesus is called God too."

    It should be quite obvious to Bible students that Moses, angels, the judges, etc. are in no wise on the same plane as Jesus. If they are "gods" it is not in the same sense as Jesus. Jesus is superior to all these entities.
    Hebrews 1 and 2 prove from Scriptures that the SON is greater than the angels and that redemption came through Christ, not by angels.
    Also, proving that Jesus Himself is not an angel. Hebrews 3 proves that Jesus is higher than Moses.

    Quote: "For example, we are not to pray to Jesus"

    Yet Stephen did in Acts 7:59,60: "As they were stoning him, Stephen said in invocation, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' Then he knelt down and said aloud, 'Lord, do not hold this sin against them.' And with these words he fell asleep."

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Adonai, can I add something?
    Obves says:
    If you want to bulid something you must have tools forst and materials to start creating something. Are you saying Jesus was floating in the emptiness with nothing around him ?! It doesn't seem logical at all.

    I agree Adonai
    as well obves, you seem to be bent on giving God these human qualities and limitations.

    Since the NT was written AFTER the events, how could the Jews know if Jesus was using a capital letter or a small letter. They just heard him, the charge was blasphemy, he wouldn't re-cant, so he was crucified.

    Food for thought
    Jehovah the Only Creator [Make Sure Of All Things." pg 79 1953 ed]
    Sentence is self explanatory.

    "Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens" [Jer. 10:11, The Bible]
    Conclusion: Christ will perish, along with Moses, & David, & all those other gods.

    1Cor 1:20-
    24....Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
    25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men...

    1 Cor 2:1-
    2 For I [Paul] determined to know NOTHING among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified...... 4 not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God......

    "The JW's brand the Trinity doctrine as being "contrary to reason" and therefore reject it. Their objection here is best answered by the fact that many of the great truths of the Bible may seem contrary to man's reason; but in reality such truths are above the grasp of man's intellect or reason. A Christian accepts the great truths of the Bible not because he claims to fully understand them, he believes them to be true because they are taught in the Bible. The Trinity, therefore, is not contrary to human reason but rather is above the grasp of man's faltering reason. Evan as God's ways are far above our ways so is His divine nature, and any God that could be fully fathomed by our finite minds would not be worth to be called God."
    MASTERS OF DECEPTION, F.W. Thomas, pg 5

    Side bar: This little book is the equivalent to the "Reasoning" Book. A must for anyone witnessing to witnesses.

  • David Gladden
    David Gladden
    -How was it possible for Jesus to know all things, (John 21:17)?
    -How can Jesus know all men (John 16:30)?
    -How can Jesus be everywhere (Matt. 28:20)?
    -How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)?
    -How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)?
    -How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)?
    -How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)?
    -How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)?
    -How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)?
    -How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)?
    -How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:244)?
    -How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)?
    -Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.)
    -In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? see John 8:58.
    -Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14.
    -Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)?
    -Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)?
    -Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)?

    Interesting... could you please outline the experiments you performed to verify these claims? What properties of the deity did your instrumentation measure?

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    A must for anyone witnessing to witnesses.

    Witnesses must be witnessed to, not to change their way of thinking about God, but to show them how their books, WT, AWAKE, and the NWT, distort the bible, twist, mislead and deceives. It opens the door to the search every human being is entitled to. The bible has been studied, disected, commentaried, etc. for centuries. Most hold to the basic ideas found therein, some argue the finer points & some call it a load of hooey, [& even worse]. Someone 100 years ago claiming to have heard from spirits that everyone else has been led by Satan should not be allowed to hijack a faith, anyone's for that matter.

    my .02

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