Scientology Down to 25,000 Members?

by cameo-d 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • JWoods
    JWoods

    For what it is worth, besides the various "reformed groups" and their followers, there are many ex-scientologists who just kept their Scientology beliefs in private and hold that all the L. Ron Hubbard stuff was the real deal - but that David M. and the current leaders are corrupt. The brainwashing is at least as deep as the JW stuff, thanks to all the constant "e-meter auditing" and control sessions.

    Note that there has been a reform movement going on more or less since the death of Hubbard - not just recently.

    My ex-COS friend is a little like this - never gave up the e-meter meditation stuff, although he also claims to be an athiest. Interestingly, he was raised as a born-in 7th Day Adventist and renounced that to go into scientology after coming back from the Vietnam war.

    Note that in the case of the couple in this story and the other thread, the husband left altogether and disclaimed belief, but the wife seems to be hooking up with a reformation scientology group. They are getting a divorce.

    So, all these cults end up leaving more or less similar damages on their members - depending on how attached to it the person becomes.

  • recovering
    recovering

    Gayle your comment made me search on the web if there was a jehovah's witness reform group this is what i found.

    here are the issues that they are seeking to reform

    » Repression of Thought » Institutionally Enforced Shunning
    » Organizational Idolatry

    http://www.jwreform.org/

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    This article creeps me out. The similarities between them and JWs is insane.

    They signed a contract for a billion years — in keeping with the church’s belief that Scientologists are immortal. They worked seven days a week, often on little sleep, for sporadic paychecks of $50 a week, at most. Whats Bethel's hours and pay scale like nowadays? Not to mention they're expected to keep up with their individual congregation's meetings and field service.

    “Why did we work so hard for this organization,” Ms. Collbran said, “and why did it feel so wrong in the end? We just didn’t understand.” Sounds like the average new poster on here.

    They soon discovered others who felt the same. Searching for Web sites about Scientology that are not sponsored by the church (an activity prohibited when they were in the Sea Org), they discovered that hundreds of other Scientologists were also defecting — including high-ranking executives who had served for decades. Its amazing when you come on forums like JWN or find out about Ray Franz, how exciting it feels to know you were never alone in your thoughts.

    The church has responded to the bad publicity by denying the accusations and calling attention to a worldwide building campaign that showcases its wealth and industriousness. Last year, it built or renovated opulent Scientology churches, which it calls Ideal Orgs, in Rome; Malmo, Sweden; Dallas; Nashville; and Washington. And at its base here on the Gulf Coast of Florida, it continued buying hotels and office buildings (54 in all) and constructing a 380,000-square-foot mecca that looks like a convention center. This is how the WTS pats itself on the back bragging about KH construction, Assembly Hall construction, their latest plans for moving operations out of Brooklyn, etc..

    As for the defectors, Mr. Davis called them “apostates” and said that contrary to their claims of having left the church in protest, they were expelled. Are Scientologists even a religion? Shouldnt they have their own term for those that "stand away from"?

    Scientology is an esoteric religion in which the faith is revealed gradually to those who invest their time and money to master Mr. Hubbard’s teachings. The light gets brighter and brighter. Jehovah reveals His truth gradually.

    They may spend hundreds of hours in one-on-one “auditing” sessions, holding the slim silver-colored handles of an e-meter while an auditor asks them questions and takes notes on what they say and on the e-meter’s readings. We spend hours upon hours studying, at meetings going over what we've studied. For some thats not enough, and they have recreational outing where they study some more.

    Her parents were dedicated church members in Los Angeles, and she attended full-time Scientology schools for several years. When she was 8 or 9, she took the basic communications course, which teaches techniques for persuasive public speaking and improving self-confidence and has served as a major recruiting tool. The Theocratic Ministry School, The Service Meeting. Gillead, The Ministerial Training School, the rumoured upcoming Elder's school, etc..

    By 16, she was recruited into the Sea Org, so named because it once operated from ships, wearing a Navy-like uniform with epaulets on the shoulders for work. She fully believed in the mission: to “clear the planet” of negative influences by bringing Scientology to its inhabitants. Her mindset then, Ms. Collbran said, was: “This planet needs our help, and people are suffering. And we have the answers.” We fully believe, or believed our mission that people needed to know "the Truth." We could care less about any practical help when someone needed it, the only thing we were concerned about was our hours and leaving magazines and books that would benefit people's lives.

    It was in Johannesburg, where the couple had gone to supervise the building of a new Scientology organization, that Mr. Collbran, who is 29, began to have doubts. He had spent months at church headquarters in Clearwater revising the design for the Johannesburg site to meet Mr. Miscavige’s demands. This is how it happens I bet for many. When I got appointed, thats when something went off in my head that something was wrong. Reading other's stories on this forum, it seems to be the same for them.

    The church acknowledges that Sea Org members are not allowed to have babies, but denies that it pressures people into having abortions. On the pay issue, it says that Sea Org members expect to sacrifice their material well-being to devote their lives to the church. Same with the WTS as they'll never admit to having actual rules banning college, or discouraging marriage, community work, articles that promoted selling of homes, articles that promoted not having children as the end was so close, etc.. Its classic doublespeak and dishonesty.

    The Collbrans, despite their efforts to remain in good standing in the church, were declared suppressive persons last year. The church discovered that Mr. Collbran had traveled to Texas to talk with Mr. Rathbun, the defector who runs a Web site that has become an online community for what he calls “independent Scientologists.” The church immediately sent emissaries to Ms. Collbran’s parents’ house in Los Angeles to inform them that their daughter was “suppressive,” Ms. Collbran said. They have refused to speak to her ever since. Recently, Ms. Collbran received an e-mail message from her mother calling her a “snake in the grass.” How many on here have lost the relationship they had with their parents over the WTS? How many are in fear of losing that relationship?

    Ms. Collbran says she still believes in Scientology — not in the church as it is now constituted, but in its teachings. She still gets auditing, from other Scientologists who have defected, like Mr. Rathbun. Mr. Davis said there is no such thing: “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.” We see that here on this board, and I'm guilty of it too. I believe JWs have nailed certain things. Certain things I agree with them on 100%. I still have guilt trips from lurking and posting on this forum periodically. I feel like a traitor some days, sometimes get the urge to do more for the WTS as in more field service amongst other things.

    Mr. Collbran, for his part, wants nothing to do with his former church. “Eventually I realized I was part of a con,” he said, “and I have to leave it and get on with my life.” Sounds like plenty on this forum who've been hurt and burned by the WTS.

    Despite all they have been through together, Ms. and Mr. Collbran are getting a divorce. The reason, they agree sadly, is that they no longer see eye to eye on Scientology. This is how it goes with current and former JWs. I guess this is what Jesus meant when he talked about how he would divide families.

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    apostate scientologists get captured by the zenu patrol and tossed into a volcano or billed thousands for freeloader fees

  • Cindi_67
    Cindi_67

    This video is from a woman that got out of the "Sea Organization" which holds lots of similiarities with "Bethel". She explains her reasons for leaving on the Today Show and how that has affected her family life...

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=35775749

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    Here's a cult in a nutshell

    1. We are ordained by (Diety) and provide all answers.

    2. Sit down, shut up, don't question us, or else.

    Skeeter

  • JWoods
    JWoods
    Here's a cult in a nutshell
    1. We are ordained by (Diety) and provide all answers.
    2. Sit down, shut up, don't question us, or else.
    Skeeter

    And - 3. Give us all your available time, or money, or both.

  • FireNBandits
    FireNBandits

    I laffed my arse off watching the South Park episode in which the tenets of SIGH IN TOL OH GEE were accurately portrayed in cartoon form. To think that my HEARTTHROB, JENNA ELFMAN, is a member of this whack-a-doodle-dung breaks my heart!

    JENNA! LEAVE THEM AND I WILL DEVOTE MY ENTIRE LIFE TO MAKING YOU HAPPY! (okay, so thats overdoing it a bit)

    Saint Martin the Enraptured

  • bereanbiblestudent
    bereanbiblestudent

    The Scientology count you as a member if you buy a book from them. So if you do the intro..test and buy something you are counted among the "millions" of followers.

    This is different with the jw they only count you if you stay active when you are ill and cannot do anything they did not count you. That is why they have introduced the 15 minute rule for elderly and other that cannot do much. If 12 people did not turn in their monthly time slip for only 1 month a year than their was one witness less at the end of the year in the statistics.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    I really would not consider this survery to be accurate. As a matter of fact, in reviewing the criteria the statistics appear to be misleading.

    http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/ARIS2008_census.jpg

    American Religious Identification Survey : Methodology

    Surveys based on random-digit-dialing telephone surveys of residential households (no info whether this distinguishes from homeowners or rentals)

    Responders asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open ended question.

    Survery sought to determine whether respondents themselves regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community.

    ---

    According to that criteria, it would mean that a Df JW could still claim to be a JW even if they are not accepted by congregation.

    I think the methodology of this survey is rather flakey as far as expecting any accuracy.

    Besides, I have seen too many palatial estates owned by Scientology to believe there are only 25,000 members.

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