Passes for Ground Zero

by Patriot 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • ashitaka

    Simon's got a point, a million cameras with a million quaint stories, and not ONE secular story had to do with the witnesses. ....Wonder why?


  • Room 215
    Room 215

    NY tellie,

    Measured against the magnitude of the tragedy, the extent of Bethel's resources, all ideally situated in proximity to Ground Zero, and the unheralded mult-million dollar outpouring in manpower and material of such ``greedy commercialists'' like Mayor Bloomberg's company to name but one example, JWs should be ashamed to even invite comparison of their ludicorous gesture, much less to crow about it.

    But these bozos are unembarassable.

  • detective

    Okay, Nytele, then I second this question: in what capacity was your friend there? when was your friend there? These are important questions as they help us understand the veracity of the claims that on site preaching work was being done and when. For example, I don't doubt that there were/are witness emergency personnel who responeded. I don't doubt that there were witness employees of the trade center. I don't doubt that during the immediate aftermath, as debris was raining down, that more than a few witnesses ran for their lives as did everyone else.

    However, I think everyone can agree that the site is a crime scene. Now I'm having a hard time understanding the capacity that your friend was on the site in. Can you explain? I don't think it would do much for their reputation to think they'd violate that crime scene and risk potential evidence corruption to share a few scriptures any more than they'd violate any other murder scene. However, if you tell me your friend was was an emergency worker authorized to be on site and happened to preach, then I'd buy that. Of course, there would also be a number of other religions also represented in that case. I do know that grief counselors were located nearby but not on site directly.
    Can you explain a bit please?

  • nytelecom1

    of course

    my friend/brother was part of the initial group that
    involved the c.o.'s in the area..he had a excellent experience
    preaching to those in the military..
    and as far as your other point..

    why yes..there are firefighters in my local cong who share the
    hope we have with others. they repeated many fine experiences talking to other about the truth of Gods Holy word

  • detective

    I think I understand what you are saying. I suspect that the people "at ground zero" were actually preaching at the perimeter where it was acceptable for them to be without jeopardizing a crime scene. In other words, they weren't wading around behind crime scene lines, they were at the perimeter speaking to those guarding the scene. This sounds about right. Would you say this is correct?

  • Patriot

    Hey Detective,
    Thats what Ive been trying to tell others on this board. I have no doubt that many Jws were preaching around the perimeter. I also believe that there were many nice "experiences" (since many people believed that the end of the world was around the corner and seeking some type of spiritual refuge).

    I also beleive just as NYt pointed out that there could be Firefighters or even police officers who might be studying (they would of course be required to quit their jobs if they want to be in "good" standing with the cong.) that have helped in other ways by speaking about hope found in the Bible.

    But to get up in front of a Cong. and say that a group of Jws went into the Debris wading around placing books and magazines while the "bucket brigade" was going on is just completely rediculous.


  • DIM

    there was an email going around saying how President Bush was witneesed to at Ground Zero or lie. I was up in NYC on Saturday, and I had no desire to go see the ruins. It was strange enough not seeing the twin towers on the train ride up... the closest I got was Greenwich Village - which isn't very close.

    i'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight-short-sighted-narrow minded hypocritics. all i want is the truth just gimme some truth - John Lennon

  • nytelecom1
    I also beleive just as NYt pointed out that there could be Firefighters or even police officers who might be studying (they would of course be required to quit their jobs if they want to be in "good" standing with the cong.) that have helped in other ways by speaking about hope found in the Bible.

    actually there are a number of dedicated servants of God who are
    also are firefighers..I know of one who is currently serving as an

    I was up in NYC on Saturday, and I had no desire to go see the ruins.
    congrats.....would you like a certificate of achievement now? im here everyday.......not wanting to go down there means nothing
  • detective

    I had a feeling that's where you were going with this. I think sometimes people are so eager to believe a story, even an enthusiastically exagerrated one, that they don't realize they are inadvertantly promoting a myth. Like you, I do believe preaching was being done AROUND THE PERIMETER. Did a guy hauling a bucket also offer a scripture or two verbally as he went about his work? Maybe. I don't know. If so, was the guy offering a scripture necessarily a witness? Maybe. He/she could have been of any faith variety. To presume that the only people offering words of encouragement from the scriptures were ONLY witnesses is incredibly naive. The perimeter was lined with people offering all sorts of encouragement. Simply watching the news, one could see that much. I can see why you have to rein in some of these dramatic re-enactments. I admire the work done by people like yourself. I appreciate your efforts and thank you deeply. I think I'd be a bit frustrated with people whose enthusiasm has gotten the better of them and as a result, they greatly over-exaggerate their role, especially if I had been in the trenches as you had.
    Witnesses and other religious groups were likely at the perimeter of the site. Some witnesses may have even been working the site in an official capacity. However, the thought of a bunch of people randomly wandering around behind police lines to offer literature is not only a horrifying thought, it would only sully the reputation of the group as it would show absolutely no regard for the integrity of a crime scene in which thousands were killed. Let alone the inherent danger of traipsing through a smoldering, infectious, dangerous environment and getting underfoot of those laboring in horrible conditions- which is just unthinkable. That would only lower the public opinion of a group and it's cause. Not only is it implausible, it's downright insulting. If I were among a group of people who made claims that could even suggest such a thing, I'd turn to my fellow group mates and encourage them to be specific as they would be injuring the groups reputation, not enhancing it.
    So...witnesses on the perimeter, witnesses involved in an official capacity. That's as special as any other group on the perimeter or any other religion represented by a site worker. I'd even say a little less impressive, in my opinion, as I think furthering ones own cause by trying to gain converts after a massive tragedy by using it to ones own agenda is simply incredibly manipulative and inappropriate. However, since I don't want to totally discredit the motives of some people who, for some strange reason, honestly believed that they were offering comfort (if you pretend there isn't that whole armageddon thing).
    Nytele, just understand that Patriot- who was in the trenches- would prefer it if you would not allow visits to the perimeter to take on mythic proportions. Also, it would be in the best interest of your group and it's reputation to be clear that you did not violate a crime scene.

  • unclebruce

    Greetings Patriot,

    Does anyone here have a link to the original claim by the WBTS that started this? I am also interested in hearing from anyone with links to people working at Watchtower HQ on Sept 11. Many folk here know people who were working in Bethel at the time or visiting for the Gilead graduation.

    What was it like having a massive destructive event like that just a few blocks away from doom and gloom HQ? What was it like looking out of the window and seeing a thing like that? What was the mood in Bethel? I have heard of some panic .. quite strange when it's us wordly folk who are depicted in countless watchtower images as the ones going mad in an apocalyptic crisis.


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