Do I convert for him????
If you dont like it before you join take a long look further
down the track, can you imagine bringing children up in
something you dislike already yourself?
You wouldnt just be marrying him youd be marrying them,
your whole future would be measured by whether you
continue to measure up to their 'jw' ideals and the latest
bright light to hit the magazines.
>>Although he did tell me, that the only way we could take our relationship to the next stage is if one of us gave in,<<
in what way has he met you half way? missed meetings or discussed leaving?
If he wasnt worried about you being a jw then why did he say
someone would have to give in?
I'm not familiar with your circumstances just what I've read on this
thread so I apoligise in advance if I'm off base.
Ive been out for years, one of the biggest blessings is that I left
before I got married to one and ended up having children, that I
avoided complicating things further, others here weren't so lucky
in a word? Never!
But, I, too, picked up on your statement about your boyfriend having said the only way you could take your relationship to the next level would be if one of you were to give in.
Will HE give in? give up? get out? for you????
It's something to ponder. No, better yet, it's something to outright ASK.
Because if the answer is, "No", then what he REALLY said was, "It's not going any further unless YOU give in, butalbee."
I'm sorry for your pain. I truly hope things work out the very best for you.
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts -- John Wooden
Thanks Richard, I will e-mail you.
You know it's been weeks since I've seen him, it's makes me very sad. His family call me and pester me to go to the hall, tell me to attend their wed. night bible study at their house,(he'll be there, they state), then he calls me and tells me how much he misses me, and I already know that it is me who'll have to give in and convert if I want to be with him. He's too grounded in the "truth" factor to ever change his beliefs. Although, he hasn't been totally active in years, it's still jammed in his head, maybe a little muttled after all those yrs of inactively, but still a constant thought process.
I have never ever said anything negative about his faith, or asked him to lean over my way.
At one time, religion didn't matter in our relationship, then his family got involved and it totally consumed it.
But how would I SUBTLY try to get him to walk the other direction on JW--IS THERE A WAY TO GET HIM OUT without bad-mouthing his beliefs in a way where he'd hate me forever.
I really do love this guy, and want to be with him, but becoming a witness just seems so wrong for me, just studying I cried all the time, was depressed about everything, could not imagine living a life where all I have to look forward to is the end of the world, I mean what would be the sense of living??
I made another bad decision--I agreed to go over to the bible study at his sister in law's tomorrow night, to see him in person.
I need words of wisdom here. I am loosing my mind all over again.
I am looking forward to your email. I will try to answer most of the questions you raised here in my reply. Part of my reason for answering you in private is I want to tell you something very personal about my children.
His family should be ashamed of themselves for manipulating your emotions in order to convert you. JWs criticize the Catholic Church for past forced conversions; this is no difference.
So, please write me and let's keep in touch for a while till you are through this.
How to get him out without him hating you?
Well, IF you got him out, he probably wouldn't hate you, not if he has an degree of maturity. BVlaming YOU for it not being the truth would be dumb.
However, the risk is that if you try to get him out, he will hate you. It's a pre-programmed reflex in him, to identify anyone who challenges his faith as 'wrong' or 'bad'.
Has he ever got online and looked at sites like this? You need to create a situation where HE will go and look, and maybe have his eyes opened.
Perhaps saying you were studying about the Witnesses, and came accross some stuff that worried you, as you knew the Witnesses were lovely people, and you couldn't believe it was true.
It's a risky game; my family are JW's and I'd love to get them out, but they are so primed to be defensive against any attack or perceived attack, it's hard to even start, let alone get anywhere, without effecting the relationships I have with them.
All the best.
People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
My advice about getting him out:
First of all, dont tell him about this site, at least not yet. As soon as he thinks you are in touch with "apostates" he may actually be afraid to talk to you in depth about things. I experienced this response from JWs - they actually fear you are influenced by Satan when you talk to those who oppose JWs.
If I was you, I would openly and honestly express to him your concerns about the religion. Sort of like "I think JW is good, but I have these doubts...." Then you could mention some well thought out points that will help him to raise the same questions in his mind.
E.g. I have had some success with JWs by telling them that I dont understand why the society has so many rules which are not directly referred to in the bible. Why can we not say "cheers"? Why are there rules about *you must* attend 5 meetings a week (or you are considered weak)? Why can women not wear trousers at the hall? etc. I tell them that I think that JWs should preach the bible, but preach *principles* rather than *rules*. Surely if we are good hearted we will naturally do the right thing, without having to have strict "ways to live" pointed out to us by the governing body. It harms people when it comes to things like organ transplants (in the 1950s when people died because the society said organ transplants were cannibalism). It harms families if there is an attitude of "us and them" like in the JWs.
OK so Im making my points here, but Im sure you have your own points that are not so confrontational, but will get him thinking about whether the society should be controlling peoples lives so much. JWs that I have spoken to tend to agree that maybe the society should be careful what they print, and maybe just teaching the principles of scripture would be a good idea. In this sense, they are finally learning independent thought, and realising that the society are not so infallible as they think.
Be honest with him about your feelings regarding the JWs. In relationships, honest communication is important, right?
The Watchtower Society Strikes again. Not content to break up already existing families, it now seeks to impose itself in relationships BEFORE marriage exists or to split those relationships in half. Holy Cow DON'T CONVERT!
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!! dont become a witness just to be with him. i know you love him and i know how hard it is to be away from someone you love. but please trust me that is nothing compared to living in that organization. i know you look at them and think 'they look and act normal' or 'they dont seem so unhappy' but believe me please when i tell you that there is NO WAY to ever be happy while in that org. NO WAY! even being with the one you love isnt enough. it might seem fine after a week or month or months. but you are going to lose yourself. once you are fully brainwashed you will never have an independent thought again. and dont think that because you are here and know the truth about the org that you will never succumb to their manipulation and mind control. if you are willing to do this for him then you will be willing to follow all their rules to keep him. and if you dont you will be worse off then before because they will kick you out and he will NEVER speak to you again. think about it please! you will have to go door to door telling people that this LIE is the truth! you will have to get on the platform and perform skits in front of these people based on this lie! you will HAVE to believe it with your whole heart, soul and mind or it will show through. you will not be able to put your 'all' into it and they will label you as weak. you will be looked upon as 'so-and-so's' 'weak' wife. so you will try harder to live up to what they want. but you wont be able to because you dont believe it so you will experience severe emotional and mental trauma. your love for him wont be enough to keep you from breaking down. i can name many witnesses, mostly wifes of elders, ministerial servants, or pioneers that have been in and out of mental hospitals for years. please, please, know that i am telling you the truth. it is a sick and twisted thing that they have going on. its a lie! hon its such a big, sick, lie. you have to move on and find someone else. you will!! just give yourself time to grieve and then turn your back on him and move on. you can still be friends. plant little seeds of doubt in his mind over time and maybe he will start researching on his own. but please dont become a member. i say this because i care and because i've been there and will probably never recover fully.
You say he's been inactive for years?
Well, then, his family is USING you!!!
Using you and his love for you to get HIM back in the organization.
This is not just about converting you to make you suitable for him (although that's part of it to THEM). This is also about manipulating his feelings for YOU. If you DID convert and he loves you so much that he wants to marry you, the family gets HIM to become active again and then they have the BOTH of you under their control.
But it's really HIM and his salvation that they're worried about. You are merely a TOOL to their end.
It's sick. Don't let them do it. If you don't convert, and he's inactive, chances are better for you to preserve your own sanity and for him to screw up his courage to leave.
My opinion only -- based on what I've read here.
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts -- John Wooden