by freetosee 24 Replies latest jw friends
I find it interesting that Samuel Herd (as CO) promoted the book “Angels and Women” in his talk "Fear of Giants". He called it a “fascinating book, once you pick it up you cant put it down without reading it from cover to cover”! He also mentions that Russell wrote the foreword of the book and that it can be found in the Gilead library.
Fear of Giants
go to 9:53 min.
http://www.archive.org/details/TheFieldIsTheWorld
fts
I've done quite a lot of research on the history of this book....and when I read it, I was quite surprised to find that it was better than I thought it was going to be. Not literature by a longshot, but not a snoozy bore either, at least for me. Actually, I have to say, the original novel Seola is far superior; for one thing it has a funny Sci-Fi theme (the intentional destruction of Wan Planet between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, creating the asteriod belt) that makes it fun. Of course, the original author had nothing to do with the WT&BTS. And Russell did not write the foreward; the foreward rather quotes his opinion of the book that was later rewritten as Angels and Woman.
In particular, I am doing a detailed literary analysis comparing the two books. This allows me to see what precisely the redactions that were made in producing Angels and Women. To a great extent, the revisions were aimed at infusing the book with Russellite theology, and eliminating anything contradictory with the Isaac Vail water canopy theory. The book also toned down some of the racism of the original. Oh yeah, and it chucked the whole Sci-Fi subplot involving Wan Planet. :(
Leolaia:
I read the Book Angels and Women and like you found it really interesting -- couldnt put it down, its on the I-net and I downloaded it to finish it..
Have u completed your anaylsis as yet?
TL
why would gb member sam herd talk about a book that says it was channelled from DEMONIC ANGELS. i just can't get it. I guess old sam knows no jw will ever read it . so it's OK TO LIE ABOUT HOW GREAT SATANIC ANGELS ARE... JW'S ARE COMICAL
No, I haven't had the time. I have all the textual variations in an Excel spreadsheet, but I have a few more chapters left to do. Then I can do a more systematic study. But it is revealing with regard to the decisions made by Brenneisen in revising Smith's novel.
Here are a few samples:
(1)
we ride, cool evenings, in a boat upon a river, and when the great rains come on, we listen to the stories from father, or to mother's songs (SEOLA, p. 9).
we ride, pleasant evenings, in a boat upon the river; at other times we listen to stories from father, or to mother’s songs (A&W, p. 15).
According to the water canopy theory, the climate would have been uniformily humid and there would not have been any rain.
(2)
These venomous beasts always come forth in the night; we must leave this place and retire to my chamber, where, beneath the inscribed talisman, we shall be safe...The charm hath wrought; the serpent cometh not; but it is growing dark; now must we go within. O glorious golden hours! O smiling yellow moon! (SEOLA, p. 11-12).
These venomous beasts always come forth in the night; we must leave this place and retire to my chamber where Ø we will be safe...The power of the name of God hath wrought; the serpent cometh not; but it is growing dark; now must we go within. O glorious golden hours! O smiling yellow moon, which I watch as through a silken veil! (A&W, pp. 18-19).
The first two redactions remove the hint of spiritism; for Brenneisen invoking the "name of God" is proper and more powerful than a magical charm. Brenneisen has also added in A&W a gloss that presumes that the moon would have been viewed through the water canopy.
(3)
I remained upon the mountain and conversed with him till the stars came out clear and glittering above the marble city (SEOLA, p. 17).
I remained upon the mountain and conversed with him till the pale moon rose over the marble city (A&W, p. 25).
Another harmonization of Smith's work with the Vail canopy theory. The stars would not have been "clear" and glittering if viewed through the canopy.
(4)
Alas! my life is changed; and yet the moon rises round and bright as of old; the white clouds hasten through the sky; the winds play idly with the cypress branches, (SEOLA, p. 43).
Alas! my life is changed; and yet the moon rises Ø as of old; Ø the winds play idly with the cypress branches, (A&W, p. 54).
With the water canopy in place, the moon would not have been "bright" and there would not have been other clouds in the sky.
(5)
Here, from the little window, I looked out long and earnestly into the darkening sky. No trace of the storm remained; the moon, now in its second quarter, was scarcely obscured by fleecy clouds stretched over the whole heavens; and through a thousand soft openings was disclosed the dark blue vault studded with twinkling stars. The anxious tumult in my breast was calmed; all nature seemed to bend over me with a smile and benediction (SEOLA, p. 54).
Here, in the quiet of my room, the anxious tumult in my breast was soon calmed. All nature seemed to bend over me with a smile and benediction as I looked out from my window upon the calm earth and sky (A&W, p. 66).
Again, the protagonist would not be able to see a trace of a storm since storms would not exist, the moon would certainly be "obscured" by the water canopy, there wouldn't be any "fleecy clouds" or a "blue vault" visible, nor any stars.
(6)
But over the immortal part of our nature they have no power, except as it is conferred by our own will. In the world of spirit a pure woman is stronger than the most malignant demon. For their wicked purpose the Devas desire possession both of the soul and body; (SEOLA, p. 55).
But over our eternal destiny they have no power, except as it is conferred by our own will. Resist these wicked demons and they are powerless. For their wicked purpose the Devas desire possession both of the mind and of the body (A&W, p. 67).
Here Brenneisen twice expunges a doctrine of the immortal soul from the text, first by replacing "immortal part of our nature" with "eternal destiny", and by replacing "soul" with "mind". Also he omitted the reference to the spirit world.
(7)
Mounted upon the back of each huge beast was a black dwarf robed in scarlet and holding a guiding wand in his hand. In front and rear were seen a band of gigantic men, clad also in scarlet, with black plumes upon their heads, and marshalled in battle array. These I knew must be the terrible beings of whom my father had spoken, Darvands, the offspring of angels and women (SEOLA, pp. 63-64).
Mounted upon the back of each huge beast was a Darvand, robed in scarlet and holding a guiding wand in his hand. In front and rear were seen a band of similar gigantic men, clad also in scarlet, with black plumes upon their heads, and marshalled in battle array. These I knew must be another detachment of those terrible beings, of whom my father had spoken -- Darvands, the offspring of angels and women (A&W, pp. 76-77).
In Smith's original novel, there were two races other than humans -- giants and black dwarfs. Brenneisen has eliminated the second race and collapsed the two into a single Darvand race. In subsequent passages, Brenneisen has replaced "black" or "black dwarf" with "servant" or "slave". This shows a recognition that Smith was talking in racial terms about enslaved blacks but he has made the reference somewhat more opaque.
(8)
The balance of the worlds is unsettled, the Wan Planet is threatened with disruption, the Earth with dire convulsion; fire and tempest will prevail, and a great deluge come by breaking in of water from the sea (SEOLA, pp. 130-131).
The balance of the worlds is unsettled, Ø the Earth is threatened with dire catastrophe. Ø Tempests will prevail; Ø a great deluge will come, by the breaking of the last great watery canopy which envelops the Earth, letting in a mighty flood of waters (A&W, p. 150).
Here the Sci-Fi plot involving the destruction of Wan Planet as the cause of the Flood is replaced with the breaking of water canopy over the earth. The reference to fire, appropriate for a massive asteroid collision with the earth, is omitted.
Anyway these are 8 redactions, so far I have documented about 284 of them.
Thanks Leo:
sorry took so long for me to get back to u but signed off shortly after I send the question..
This would make a great picture -- a James Cameron epic... something like Avatar in 3 D
I was actually of mixed mind to read or not, but threw caution ot the wind and thoroughly enjoyed the book..
Will mark this post to check when u have all redactions - but it looks like it will take quite a while with 284 done and more to do.. where do u find the time??
Thats a lot of work
I just signed on as a member because I was impressed with the info supplied by the above posters. I enjoyed hearing Samuel Herd's talk. Very few witnesses mention Angels and Women. I only knew of four JW's that knew about the book before me. One of those four introduced me to it. The day was energizing when my friend handed me photo scans of AW in the mid 90's.
Charles Taze Russell and Ann Eliza Smith were both traveling in uncharted territory with their published works. Just read a copy of The Photo Drama of Creation and you'll see what I mean. If you didn't know already the PDC is referenced in the appendix section of Angels and Women.
I would have to say that the information that was being pushed out during the early days of the Bible Students was more wild and adventurous than the new stuff being published today. The society is more reserved these days and doesn't want to go down the path of speculation. Russell had nothing to fear back then.
I agree, Seola was a superior work compared to Angels and Women. Smith was just a better writer than the reviser of AW. I would have to say it was more poetic. If you enjoyed AW and Seola you should enjoy the rest of Smith's works. Here's a list of them:
From Dawn to Sunrise
Selma
Atla
Notes of Travel in Mexico and California
In Notes of Travels she said she visited Salt Lake city. After reading that section I found out she really disliked Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, the founders of the Mormon church. The act of polygamy in that era revolted her.
Leo,
What do you think of this?
http://www.angelsandwomen.com/
During a small expedition in the Anti Libanus mountains in Syria c.1869 a discovery was made in a small cave of an ancient manuscript written in antediluvian script. No one in the group was able to decipher it and due to the presence of the husband of Agatha Christie [who was working with British secret service ]the discovery was kept quiet.
The only person known to the group who had the ability to translate antediluvian script was Miss Ann Eliza Brainerd of St Albans, Vermont who had married John Gregory Smith who was also from St Albans, Vermont, in 1842; now Mrs J.G. Smith. The manuscript was therefore posted to her in Britain where she was residing at the time, later she returned to St Albans.
During her periods of translation she was known always to acconpany this skill by listening to beautiful music. Venus [peace] is a prime example of this and tends to provide an Edenic atmosphere. Discovering that this was a Diary of events before, during and after the Great Deluge, she decided to name it after the woman who wrote it; Seola .
Once complete, it was published in 1878 and a copy of it was given to her good friend Charles Taze Russell who remarked that if revised; “it would be beneficial for all, due to the fact that it presents the origin of those responsible for spiritism.” So he approached a close acquaintance, George Brenison who agreed to do just that. It was revised and re-named ‘Angels and Women’.
By the time it was published in 1924 Charles Taze Russell had died. Then in the Autumn of 1978 an american by the name of Jim Risoli and his wife were providing home care for an elderly woman by the name of Edith Brenison of 29, Church Street, Holliston, Massachusetts. During this short stay Jim was offered a box which when he oened it, found that it contained a number of books with a royal blue cover and a title in gold lettering; Angels and Women.
more on Miss Ann Eliza Brainerd
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=23122079
Sorry to intrude truthseeker,
Did that information come from the "Bible Students Forum"? I saw that blog a year ago. I tried to "google" for it again but now "Bible Students Forum" makes you sign up to view it.
Here's some things to note. Agatha Christie wasn't born until 1890 so I'm betting that bit of info is false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agatha_Christie
Now the discovery date of 1869 aligns better with Seola's 1878 publishing. It seems like the Angels and Women & Seola novel sparked the imagination of those that were taking the Oriental Archaeological Research Expedition in 1950 on Mt. Ararat. Some details of this is stated in Rene Noorbergen's book, Secret of the Lost Races (1977). The name Amoela sounds like a blended name of Seola and Aloma to me.
