I took Ihunt's suggestion and listened in around the 40 minute mark, regarding the 144,000 and Jesus as mediator, it was helpful and to reaffirm his comments he gave a small demonstration of discussing the points with a JW.
How To Witness to Jehovah's Witnesses Video
by Perry 17 Replies latest jw friends
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Perry
The purpose of my talk was to demonstrate just how easy it is to show a JW, using their own bible, that they really have no idea how their sins are forgiven. This is significant.
I can say everything that I want to say to a JW in less than 5 minutes. On dozens of occasions, I have achieved the "deer in the headlights" look every time using the method that my wife and I demonstrated. I wish that someone would have cared enough for me while I was a witness to take a couple minutes to confront me about the fact that there is no forgiveness of sins in the Watchtower system. I would have also liked to have been confronted on the unbiblical belief that we get a clean slate at death.
My approach explains why we frequently heard the charge that JW's don't believe in Jesus. Of course we all thought that was ridiculous back when were all active JW's. What Christians were really trying to say was that JW's don't believe Jesus. There is a difference. We believed Jesus lived. We just didn't believe he was talking to us.
I have a local elder on video tape admitting that if Jesus was not his mediator that he was in the wrong religion!
I'd call that a victory.
Hopefully he went and did some research after that.
The one scripture I didn't highlight that I wished I had was Gal 2:16
...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Ucantnome
Perry I haven't watched your video yet it goes on my to do list. (there is a lot on my to do list) anyway shortly after I stopped attending the hall this point of a 'clean slate at death' came up when I was reading Romans. We didn't have the internet then and I only had a very old copy of the Living Bible. I went to the local library to do some research on it which wasn't a lot of help. So I sort of agree with you when you say
I would have also liked to have been confronted on the unbiblical belief that we get a clean slate at death.
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nicolaou
The purpose of my talk was to demonstrate just how easy it is to show a JW, using their own bible, that they really have no idea how their sins are forgiven. This is significant.
"How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
Luke 6:42
Perry, you are a plank.
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Caedes
Perry, you do seem to have taken boring people to death to a professional level, and I say that as someone who does it for a living!
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OnTheWayOut
I can say everything that I want to say to a JW in less than 5 minutes. On dozens of occasions, I have achieved the "deer in the headlights" look every time using the method that my wife and I demonstrated.
You can never "say" anything in less than 5 minutes. You always find some link to bizarre thoughts that takes an hour or more. I saw the preachy look of this video and that it was over an hour and I didn't even bother with it. (I probably should just to see what you and your wife look like, but since there is no actual bird on your shoulder, I lose interest.) That's the reaction of a JW also- instant turn-off. And your getting a JW to have that "deer in the headlights" look- how helpful is that? I know you think you are reaching them because you reach a stumping point. But time and time again, people have stumped your closed mind on this forum by pointing out flaws in your fundamentalist thinking or demonstrating why evolution or global warming must be true. You get that "deer" look and then just go on and post more links to garbage.
I am pretty sure the average JW just goes on when you point out contradictions to their beliefs in the book that is loaded with contradictions. Perry, all I ever see from you is that you are the JW of fundamentalism here. You refuse to learn and grow in any direction other than "I have the truth, I know I am right."
Remember, I continue to point this out to you because you are just like a JW. I believe you truly want someone to reach through your closed mind and wake you up. It's why you keep posting garbage here. You truly want us to snap you out of accepting it.
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LisaRose
^^^ what OTWO said. -
Perry
I know the delivery was slow. There is a reason for that. I imagined that my JW parents were sitting on the front row who are in their 80's the whole time. I know the delivery wont appeal to certain people. It is not meant to appeal to everyone.
This talk is definitely not meant to give to JW's as a DVD either. Everybody knows that once the JW viewer knows I am a former member, they would never watch it anyway. Don't waste your time. Even many ex-jws are usually too hurt and beat up from having lost loved ones to have a calm logical conversation on this.... a least for a good long while, maybe never for some.
At any rate, I have found that a lot of Christians are very interested in how to talk to JW's. The pastoral staff told me that this service was the most highly requested DVD of a service they ever had. That really surprised me since we get guest speakers from ministries all over the world.
I am training Christians to overcome several lies/misconceptions when they speak to JW's:
1. Jesus is their Mediator
JW's will almost always initially claim this, whether they know its true or not. Spending a little time on this is VERY helpful. Even if you don't have a Watchtower quote proving that Jesus is not their mediator, you can get there just by reasoning from THEIR bible alone. Here's how:
Hebrews 12: 24 - ...and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant NWT
Which brings us to the 2nd lie/misconception that JW's will tell you
2. They are part of the New Covenant
Most JW's will tell you they are part of the New Covenant hoping that you don't know about them rejecting the NC at the Lord's Supper service. Once you question them on this they will admit that the NC is not for them personally. The problem then becomes apparent after you read Matthew 26: 27,27 which clearly states the PURPOSE of the NC is for forgiveness of sins. If they are not part of the NC, then how are their sins forgiven?
3. They will grow to perfection in the Millennium Reign
Some may claim this as their hope. However at least two scriptures prove the impossibility of this:
a. “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. - Rev. 7:14 (NWT)
There is no need for tribulation survivors to "grow to perfection" as the Watchtower teaches because the tribulation survivors are already declared righteous as indicated by their white robes. They were white because they ALSO are part of the NC because they were washed in the blood covenant of the lamb.
b. Gal 2:16...by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Just in case anyone wants to wiggle out of Rev. 7: 14, they can be reminded of the impossibility of "growing to perfection" because God says he rejects any such notion in Gal 2: 16.
I have already made plans to talk at two other churches. Perhaps one of these Christians will speak to one of your family members who are still in and it will start their "wake-up process" so that your relationship can one day be restored.
That is my hope and prayer.