The JEHOVAH game (a modern fetish)

by Terry 97 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    Nobody is going to read this, but, I'll post it anyway.

    A bit more on the Textus Receptus:

    Elzevir, 1624 . [Isaac Elzevir], Novum Testamentum Græce. Lugduni Batavorum [Leiden]: Ex officina Elzeviriana, 1624; 2nd edition 1633.

    The following information on the Elzevir editions is given by Dr. Ronald D. Minton of Piedmont Baptist College in his book, The Making and Preservation of the Bible.

    "The Elzevirs [also spelled Elzevier and Elsevier] were a family of well-known Dutch printers and publishers. They were of Flemish ancestry and were famous printers for several generations....

    "Bonaventure and his nephew, Abraham, are famous for publishing the Greek New Testament. However, it was Abraham's brother Isaac that actually printed the first Elzevir Greek New Testament in 1624. This edition was small and convenient. It had all verse numbers on the inside margin of each page. After that printing sold out, Bonaventure and Abraham themselves printed the second Elzevir edition in 1633. The preface of this second edition was written by Daniel Heinsius (1580-1655) and the editor was Jeremias Hoelzlin (1583-1644). [This has been rarely mentioned, and was uncertain until the publication of H.J. de Jonge, "Jeremias Hoelzlin: Editor of the 'Textus Receptus' Printed by the Elzevirs Leiden 1633," in T. Baarda, A.F.J. Klijn, and W.C. VanUnnik, eds. Miscellanea Neotestamentica 1 (1978): 105-28. Heinsius and Hoelzlin were both professors at Leiden.] It had all the verse numbers to the left of the text and within the text itself. Each verse was started separately and the first letter was capitalized. The text of this 1633 edition became known as the "Textus Receptus" because of an advertisement in Heinsius' preface that said in Latin Textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus receptum: in quo nihil immutatum aut corruptum damus, 'Therefore you have the text now received by all in which we give nothing altered or corrupt.' ...

  • Terry
    Terry

    And now a word about Theodore Beza.

    Beza, a humanist and Calvinist was in fact the successor of John Calvin.

    Bibliography of Textual Criticism "B"

    Beza, 1565. Theodore Beza, Novum Testamentum, cum versione Latina veteri, et nova Theodori Bezæ. Geneva, 1565 (folio); 2nd folio edition 1582; 3rd folio edition 1589; 4th folio edition 1598.

    Beza was a prominent theologian and scholar in Geneva, and his changes were generally taken to be improvements upon the text; but in many places this is doubtful. Despite his qualifications, he seems not to have applied himself to the improvement of the Estienne text, which was substantially that of Erasmus' later editions. Beza's annotations to the text showed more critical independence, as may be seen in the note to John 8:1-12, which he regarded as inauthentic. That he did not omit the passage from his text shows, however, that by 1565 the text of Erasmus had attained a kind of prescriptive right as the text in common use, duly corrected and established (as was thought) on manuscript authority by Estienne. His annotations included the readings gathered by Henry Estienne for his father Robert, whose collations had come into Beza's possession, and also included notes on the readings of the Peshitta Syriac version (as translated into Latin by Tremellius).

    Beza's text of 1598 was the one most often followed by the translators of the Authorized King James version and it also became the basis of the later Elzevir editionsof 1624 which on the continent held a place of honour comparable to that of Estienne's editions in England.

    Although some lament that Beza's view of the doctrine of predestination exercised too preponderating an influence upon his interpretation of the Scriptures, there is no question that he added much to a clear understanding of the New Testament.

    Drip by drop the changes came. Each successive person added his own interpretation, word change, interpolation or omission according to the views held by the translator.

  • Terry
    Terry

    And now, Robert Etienne.

    16th century printer and classical scholar in Paris. He was a former Catholic who became an Evangelical late in his life and the first to print the a Bible divided into standard numbered verses.

    He corrected the edition of the Latin New Testament of 1523. This work was the first occasion of the endless charges and criminations of the clerical party, especially the theological faculty of the Sorbonne, against him. At the time the Church forbade printing the Bible and providing it to the average person, because they feared people would misinterpret it.

    Etienne's work was used by Beza whose work was used by the Elezivir brothers whose work was the Textus Receptus purportedly used (but not really) by the King James translators.

    Whew!

    Perhaps the Church was right to fear all the translating into a "readable" bible would result in everybody interpreting things whatever way they thought was best. That's certainly what the translators themselves did!

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    So many individuals cutting a slice out the God pie for themselves for self empowerment and edification.

    The early Israelites should have copyrighted their God.

  • Terry
    Terry

    PERRY OH PERRY MY MAN WHERE ARE YOU???

  • Perry
    Perry

    Super nasty upper respitory infection Terry. Just now catching up.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Super nasty upper respitory infection Terry. Just now catching up.

    Sorry to hear that.

    Is that a picture of you and your family on your website? Beautiful family. You're a blessed man.

    Come back and play when you feel better

  • Perry
    Perry

    Thank You. All from the Lord Terry, after I came to him. Before that....40 years of ...well nevermind.

    First I want to say that the term Textus Receptus has come to mean the body of texts that enjoy vast agreement with each other (99%). They are mainly in cursives. It was never meant to mean one specific master Greek text... even if taken from the footnote of one. This is in contra-distinction to the Unicals (1% Alexandrian-Style) (all capital letters), which some say differ nearly 10,000 times with about 3300 of them notable differences not only with the TR but with each other.

    The argument you put forth about how most ot the majority texts are dated after AD 700 and therefore could have all come from one master corrupt copy is irrelevant to our discussion for reasons I'll soon enough show. However, the inventors of that theory was none other than our bible correctors Westcott and Hort.

    This was a very important fabrication of theirs because they needed to diminish the authority of the majority texts and bolster the authority of A and B texts (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus).

    Since this is where this argument of yours really originated, I will quote John Burgeon who was a superior contemporary scholar with Westcott and Hort who severly criticized their textual theories as well as this particular argument called "Recension".

    13. The False So-Called "Syrian Text Recension" of 250 and 350 A.D. Refuted. Westcott and Hort wrote: "The Syrian Text [our Textus Receptus] must in fact be the result of a `Recension,' . . . performed deliberately by Editors, and not merely by Scribes." (Introduction, p. 133). Dean Burgon answered them as follows: "But why `must' it? Instead of `must in fact,' we are disposed to read `may--in fiction.' The learned Critic can but mean that, on comparing the Text of Fathers of the IVth century with the Text of cod. B, it becomes to himself self-evident that one of the two has been fabricated. Granted. Then,--Why should not the solitary Codex be the offending party? . . . why (we ask) should codex B be upheld `contra mundum'?" [Against the whole world] [Dean John W. Burgon, Revision Revised, pp. 272-73]. It is Codex "B" (the Vatican manuscript) versus the text of the Church Fathers of the 4th century. Both can't be right. One of the two must be fabricated. Can you guess which one Dean Burgon believes to be "fabricated"?

    14. The False Alleged "Syrian Text Recension of 250 and 350 A.D. Only A Guess. Dean Burgon wrote: "Apart however from the gross intrinsic improbability of the supposed Recension,--the utter absence of one particle of evidence, traditional or otherwise, that it ever did take place, must be laid to be fatal to the hypothesis that it did. It is simply incredible that an incident of such magnitude and interest would leave no trace of itself in history. As a conjecture--(and it only professes to be a conjecture)--Dr. Hort's notion of how the Text of the Fathers of the IIIrd, IVth, and Vth centuries,--which, as he truly remarks, is in the main identical with our own Received Text,--came into being, must be unconditionally abandoned." [Dean John W. Burgon, Revision Revised, pp. 293-94]. A "recension" of the Greek New Testament Text would mean that this text was fabricated by editors. The editor would throw out all the other contrary texts, and come up with just one text. There is not a scrap of history that tells anything about this event. This is a false theory, but they had to account for the fact that the Textus Receptus-type manuscripts have over 99% of the manuscript evidence behind it. Westcott and Hort had to say that someone made an editorial recension or revision of the New Testament. They then said that all of the Textus Receptus-type manuscripts were carbon copies of that original recension or revision. This is their false, flawed, and unhistorical hypothesis to account for 99% of the evidence.

    15. The Importance of Refuting the False "Recension Theory" of Westcott and Hort. Dean Burgon wrote: "We have been so full on the subject of this imaginary `Antiochian' or `Syrian text,' not (the reader may be sure) without sufficient reason. Scant satisfaction truly is there in scattering to the winds an airy tissue which its ingenious authors have been industriously weaving for 30 years; But it is clear that with this hypothesis of a `Syrian' text,--the immediate source and actual prototype of the commonly received Text of the N.T.,--stands or falls their entire Textual theory. Reject it, and the entire fabric is observed to collapse, and subside into a shapeless ruin. And with it, of necessity, goes the `New Greek Text,'--and therefore the `New English Version' of our Revisionists, which in the main has been founded on it." [Dean John W. Burgon, Revision Revised, p. 294]. Westcott and Hort's whole house of cards will fall if their hypothesis falls. It does fall because there is no historical record that shows that anybody ever destroyed the many thousands of New Testament documents and edited the text down to just one document, a recension. This is absolutely false to history and cannot be proven to be true by any facts. The theory falls, the text falls, the English translation falls!

    16. Westcott and Hort's Admission that the Textus Receptus Is the Greek Text Found Abundantly in the "Fourth Century." Many Westcott and Hort supporters claim that the text of our Textus Receptus kind of manuscripts is of a more recent date than "B" and "Aleph." Westcott and Hort admitted: "The fundamental text of the late extant Greek MSS generally is, beyond all question, identical with (what Dr. Hort chooses to call) the dominant Antiochian or Graeco-Syrian text of the second half of the IVth century . . . The Antiochian (and other) Fathers, and the bulk of extant MSS, written from about three or four, to ten or eleven centuries later, must have had, in the greater number of extant variations, a common original either contemporary with, or older than, our oldest extant MSS." [Westcott & Hort, Introduction to the Greek N.T., p. 92. quoted by Dean John W. Burgon, Revision Revised, p. 295]. Westcott and Hort admitted forthrightly that the Textus Receptus text is a 4th century text. They explained this fact by its being the result of a rescension/revision made in 250 A.D. and again in 350 A.D. Again, Westcott and Hort did not attempt to prove this, nor could they. It is merely a false hypothesis.

    17. Dean Burgon Agrees Wholeheartedly with Westcott and Hort's Admission that the Textus Receptus Was the Dominant Text of the Fourth Century A.D., But for Different Reasons. Dean Burgon wrote: "So far then, happily, we are entirely agreed. The only question is--How is this resemblance to be accounted for? Not, we answer,--not, certainly, by putting forward so violent and improbable--as irrational a conjecture as that, first, about A.D. 250,--and then again about A.D. 350,--an authoritative standard Text was fabricated at Antioch; of which all other known MSS. (except a very little handful) are nothing else but transcripts; but rather, by loyally recognizing, in the practical identity of the Text exhibited by 99 out of 100 of our extant MSS, the probable general fidelity of those many manuscripts to the inspired exemplars themselves from which remotely they are confessedly descended." "And surely, if it be allowable to assume (with Dr. Hort) that for 1532 years, (viz. from A.D. 350 to A.D. 1882) the Antiochian standard has been faithfully retained and transmitted,--it will be impossible to assign any valid reason why the inspired Original itself, the Apostolic standard, should not have been as faithfully transmitted and retained from the Apostolic age to the Antiochian (i.e. say, from A.D. 90 to A.D. 250-350)--i.e. throughout an interval of less than 250 years, or one-sixth of the period." [Dean John W. Burgon, Revision Revised, pp. 295-96]. Dean Burgon is saying clearly that God has preserved His Words.

    18. More Explanation of the False "Recension" Theory of the Greek New Testament. Dean Burgon wrote: "Drs. Westcott and Hort assume that this `Antiochian text'--found in the later cursives and the Fathers of the latter half of the IVth century--must be an artificial, an arbitrarily invented standard; a text fabricated between A.D. 250 and A.D. 350. And if they may but be so fortunate as to persuade the world to adopt their hypothesis, then all will be easy; for they will have reduced the supposed `consent of Fathers' to the reproduction of one and the same single `primary documentary witness': . . ." "Upset the hypothesis on the other hand, and all is reversed in a moment. Every attesting Father is perceived to be a dated MS. and an independent authority; and the combined evidence of several of these becomes simply unmanageable. In like manner, `the approximate consent of the cursives' . . . is perceived to be equivalent not to `A PRIMARY DOCUMENTARY WITNESS,'--not to `ONE ANTIOCHIAN ORIGINAL,'--but to be tantamount to the articulate speech of many witnesses of high character, coming to us from every quarter of primitive Christendom." [Dean John W. Burgon, Revision Revised, pp. 296-97].

    So, I really couldn't have refuted this idea of recension any better myself.

    http://www.logosresourcepages.org/Versions/received.htm

    The link above shows manuscripts in the TR tradition that date back to 125 Ad and a complete one dated 150 AD....which really does render much of this argument moot.

    Dean Burgeon wrote a 600 page expose (Revision Revised) on the theories of Wescott and Hort that were never answered by them and have never been answered by any scholar to this very day.

    Here's a tract based on that book from which the above pastings were taken:

    http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/CriticalTexts/dbs2695.htm

  • Perry
  • Perry
    Perry

    In other words, someone would have needed to travel everywhere, burn all the manuscripts, create one "false one" then make copies for redistribution in time for the early fathers to quote from the false ones after AD 250. All this without one sigle complaint from thousands of churches.

    Even if such a delusion could somehow be entertained, early TR - like documents appear from all over the world from 125 AD. from across three Continents, making the recension theory utterly fantastical in scope and TOTALLY impossible.

    It is pure fiction. There is ZERO evidence for the bottle-neck theory you suggest.

    There is every evidence of a tree-like growth with the Alexandrian branch but a weak and brittle limb.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit