The JEHOVAH game (a modern fetish) (page 3)

PSacramento

When the dead sea scrolls were discovered, it showed that there was very little difference between what we have know and what was written then.

Its easy to say that we THINK that it makes SENSE that the bible is not the same as it was in regards to the original docuements that came to be "the bible" and we are probably right, but we don't know that for sure.

Nevertheless, we MUSt take what is written in the bible as a WHOLE and not as isolated parts to justify our own doctrine ( organizational doctrines).

You mentioned the cruzades, they had ZERO to do with God an Jesus and IF people had access to the bibel as they do know, one HOPEs that far less woudl have been brainwashed into that crap.

As for the blood issue, that is selective interpretation of something that is NOT EVEN stated in the bible.

The bible may be used as an excuse for many things, not much of a gray area there, but lets put the blame where is needs to be, the PEOPLE not some book.

leavingwt

Nevertheless, we MUSt take what is written in the bible as a WHOLE and not as isolated parts to justify our own doctrine ( organizational doctrines).

Isn't this view, itself, a doctrine of sorts? Or, more accurately, a unique interpretation?

PSacramento

Isn't this view, itself, a doctrine of sorts? Or, more accurately, a unique interpretation?

Guilty, LOL !

Of course one can argue that the reason the Bible has so many stories and so much variety of views and even opposing view points is eactly why the bible must be taken as a whole.

We see a change from the OT God of the Old covenant that, supposedly, advocated genocide and mass murder, to one of the NT that gave the commandment of love your enemies and love each other.

From a God of," DO THIS BITCH OR DIE !!!" to a God of eternal and uncompromising love that wants a personal relationship with everyone of his children.

And even then there is a "conflict" of views, one that advoctes faith in God's grace cause we all basically suck ass and one that still belives that works MUST be done and are the deciding factor.

One that calls us to call God Father and to have God and his kingdone live within us and another that says that many wil burn in eternal flames come judgment day !

Terry

I was talking to my non-interested-in-religion son today and was describing the development of the Bible by accretions over time.

He perked up and said something profound:

"OH, the Bible is a Wiki!"

PSacramento

Terry.

One wonders when the bible STOPPED being the work in progress that it always was.

Terry

One wonders when the bible STOPPED being the work in progress that it always was.
It never has stopped!
Each time a new bible version/translation is published you are watching a "work in progress" take yet a new shape in some small (usually doctrinal) way.
Ask yourself "why" this NIV is different from this NKJV and you'll quickly determine editors are at work with addenda resculpting the point of view of readers to more closely conform to a current teaching of a contemporary Church.
Look beyond the PR bullshit which accompanies a new publication.
Remember the Watchtower Society released the NWT by saying how Modern English makes the reading of God's word "more understandable"??
"Understandable" is a code word. It forces a doctrinal dispute into a narrow channel of perspective.
John 1:1 Gave JW's ammunition (so they naively thought!) for undermining the Trinity doctrine. ha ha ha. (One for each person of the Trinity).
The NIV changed a great many things as well; not the least of which was making a politically correct gender bias pop into frame.
Ever heard the expression "Don't raise the bridge, lower the river?"
That is tackling a problem creatively in an uncoventional fashion.
If Scripture doesn't clearly "say" what you want it to say it is much easier to re-translate it so that it does!
Bart Ehrman in MISQUOTING JESUS talks about additions and ommissions in the Jesus narrative over a long period of copying and retranslating. It is quite an amazing story.
The entire sequence where Jesus stops the angry crowd from stoning the adultress to death is a bogus addition to the text which began as a scribal marginalia and became part of "holy writ."
Easily done, you see.

PSacramento

Bart Ehrman in MISQUOTING JESUS talks about additions and ommissions in the Jesus narrative over a long period of copying and retranslating. It is quite an amazing story.

The entire sequence where Jesus stops the angry crowd from stoning the adultress to death is a bogus addition to the text which began as a scribal marginalia and became part of "holy writ."

Bart's work is biased and very selective, but there is nothing worng with that since he is just expressing an opinion.

That story from the GOJ was inserted later and it is pretty much know by most people who study the bible.

It was kept in there because it was "in context" with the rest of the gospel of John.

I agree that the recent translations are, in some ways, the continuation of the work, but what I meant was that there were always more books and letters and manuscriptes available to the people and that should never of stopped happening.

Good thing that in our present time, we have access to far more teachings.

Or a bad thing depending on your view.

Terry

Bart's work is biased and very selective, but there is nothing worng with that since he is just expressing an opinion.
Everything we read or study is PRE-filtered by SOMEBODY with an agenda. We have to select our teachers by examining
their intellectual honesty and discovering their foundational premises.
Bart Ehrman was a fundamentalist who wanted to study original languages to read and understand the Bible in as unfiltered a manner as he could. When he discovered how shakey the historical foundational claims of inerrancy were--it shook him. The more he delved into the details the more unsubstantiated the claims of Christianity seemed to be using the basis of inerrent scriptural authority.
He is a professor in good standing and not a radical bomb thrower. Even those who oppose him recognize his objectivity.
That story from the GOJ was inserted later and it is pretty much know by most people who study the bible.
It was kept in there because it was "in context" with the rest of the gospel of John.
That should stop us all dead in our tracks! Somebody along the way decided you could ADD anything at all to the inerrant word of the only True God as long as it was "in context" and even if people accepted it as divinely inspired---well---that's just fine and dandy.
You see--the foundational premise of "inspired" "inerrant" and historical is destroyed by even ONE such instance!
Good thing that in our present time, we have access to far more teachings.
Only two kinds of people study anything contrary to their inherited belief system.
1. Destroyers who want to inflict damage
2.Intellectually honest searchers for some abstract notion of "truth".
There are alot more destroyers and manipulators than there are honest seekers, in my opinion.

PSacramento

There are alot more destroyers and manipulators than there are honest seekers, in my opinion.

True, unfortuntely.

I don't beleive that the bible is "inerrant", but I do beleive that the writers were inspired to write about what they saw and what they beleived.

Terry

I don't beleive that the bible is "inerrant", but I do beleive that the writers were inspired to write about what they saw and what they beleived.
I think all of us here (well, maybe not all...) would LOVE for that to be true.
But--practically speaking....there is no evidence whatsoever it is the case.
Contrarily, there is considerable indication the Bible is a mess as a document.
No--it only makes sense if it is ALL inspired and beneficial or ALL sham and contrivance.
For God to be GOD a standard of purity must be maintained.
If GOD communicates with man the maintenance of purity has to be of the highest level.
What is corruption and impurity if not the very essence of variance from Standard???
A Standard is the first line of defense against corruption. If you have to pick and choose and interpret your way around a very questionable "standard" you are in deep Doo-Doo.
A quick look at not only Christianity--but--religion as a whole reveals the Doo-doo level!

The JEHOVAH game (a modern fetish)

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