A question for Christians

by paul from cleveland 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    Thanks for all your answers. Forgive me for not quite getting it. I think my problem is with the idea of 'deliberate sin'. Isn't all sin deliberate? Don't we know we're sinning when we do it? If we didn't, wouldn't it just be a mistake? To me, trying not to 'sin deliberately' is an impossible task. I never know if there is some 'cut off' point where it's okay. For example, I know that when I'm driving down the road and going even one mile over the speed limit, I'm sinning by not obeying Ceasar's law. When I keep doing it, there is no longer any sacrifice left for my sin. To even look at a woman with lust, I've committed adultery in my heart yet I keep doing it. I know this may seem ridiculous but I really think about these things all the time. When I was a Witness, I always felt I had to do more. Enough was never enough. Now, it's kind of the same thing. I just can't stop deliberately sinning.

  • mouthy

    Paul there isnt a person on earth that dont sin.....If they say they dont they are Liars
    & you know who their Father is THE DEVIL....

    We will all sin in our lives ,that is why Christ came ,To pay the ransom
    But my love I still think you need to see a theropist or talk to Lady Lee
    The guilt you keep expressing ,Is a little too much.
    unless your killing some one ,or stealing,or raping, just remember to do

    unto others as you would like them to do to you
    I go past the speed limit also!!!
    if Ceasor catches me I will ruddy well have to pay for it .....So will youMasturbating????? I doubt if you will ever be able to stop it.
    unless your doing it as an addiction ,once in a while ,I figure cant be helped but
    all the days you spend awake ...? Crikey ! No way....

    So get some help my lad Tell Doctor or counsoller ,or Lady Lee exactly what your guilty of
    Doubting GOD??? So Tell HIM your dont believe him & if he is there to help you
    He never forces folks to speak to him but he will never SHUN you as the WT teaches he does ((((HUG

  • Chalam

    Hello Paul,

    Are you born again? Without being a new creation you are unable to overcome the "flesh", the sinful nature.

    John 3:5-7 (New International Version)

    5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

    2 Corinthians 5:17 (New International Version)

    17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

    Galatians 6:15 (New International Version)

    15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

    The chapters I posted earlier to read from Romans and Galatians will help too :)



  • yknot


    A bank robber deliberately robs a bank

    Paul driving without or even with cruise control may go over the limit by 1 mile per hour..........is not deliberate.

    We do not have perfection.

    I have never understood the lust/looking thing....I assume it is just a 'guy thing'.

    Until you accept how much God loves you for just being you I think you will continue to struggle with WTS views on over-examining 'rules'.

    If you find yourself lusting after a woman over and over and over even though she is married to another (or you are married to another) this is where you pray for strength and guidance, where you turn yourself over to meditation and set about stepping up your resolve to lessen the situation. Think of it like someone who is trying to quit smoking, some can quit cold-turkey while others need to take on step at a time.......if they find themselves lighting up again than they stop and return to the path of nicotine free living...... without beating themselves up too much for they know that are sorry and forgiven, starting over with a clean slate!

    LOVE......Know you are LOVED, really discern and take into your heart the love of both God and Son and than simply do your best to return that love in your world, remembering Jesus' words that his 'yoke' is light and unburdenous......you do not have to work for your salvation merely allow Christ to lead you in your choices.

    (so let me ask you a personal question......Have you invited Jesus directly through prayer into your heart?-- Have you accepted his invitation in return ?)

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland
    Are you born again? Without being a new creation you are unable to overcome the "flesh", the sinful nature.
    Have you invited Jesus directly through prayer into your heart?-- Have you accepted his invitation in return ?)

    No, I'm not born again but I've prayed very hard for this for years. What does it feel like? How do you know? How can you know? Are you sure?


    Hi Mouthy (My new Grandma). I didn't say I necessarily have a "problem" with it... I just wrote that "someone once asked" about it. (I won't say who)

  • carla

    From a non/never been jw point of view- I have no concept of what jw's consider 'deliberate' sin. My bible tells me ALL are sinners and there is nothing, not one thing you can do by yourself to make it better. No amount of work be it fs, charity, or trying very hard to be good will not change the fact you fall short, we all do. There is only one way to make good on sin, Jesus. Only He can take away sins, no mortal men can, no amount of fs, no amount of hail Mary's, whatever.... nothing you can do personally to make any sin go away. Accepting Christ and His work upon the Cross is the only way. That may require you to actually talk to Jesus which most jw's cannot bring themselves to do.

    My jw claims not to be a sinner, not an 'intentional sinner'. Well duh, most people do not intend to sin, they justify and make excuses but we know we do wrong things and hopefully try to do better. How that make him a 'non-sinner' is beyond me! I can surely point out many 'sins' he does on a daily basis as well as my own!

    Jw's tend to focus on the 'seen' sins of others, what about the unseen sins? Who is to say the outward very public sinner is worse than the church goer/jw in good standing who has awful thoughts? wishes ill upon others? fantisizes about the little girl sittin next to him? but yet looks to others as if he is a pillar of society? are they really better in God's eyes? how would you know? Didn't Jesus say if you even think it, it is a sin? even a bad thought about a person is a sin, look at a woman the least bit lustfully and it is a sin, most jw's do not get the need for forgiveness or that is even offered to all not just a few elect. Have you read a bible without the aid of the wt's or a non NWT version of the bible? Maybe you need to really research the NT itself before you are too hard on yourself. Research, then research some more, wash , rinse, repeat.

  • yknot

    .....How do you know.....

    Because you believe without questioning it ever again!

    Just like you know your grandparents and parents love you, sure they might not always approve or become disappointed over your choices but it doesn't impede their love. They will even allow you to suffer the consequences of your actions should it be deserved or a point of 'refinement' in your developement of character but again the love remains constant.

    I have always known.....however it wasn't until about 2 years ago that I had to really sit down and talk to both God and Jesus about this whole WTS thing. It was gut wrenching, I wanted this to be the troof sooooo baaadly as I sobbed primally on my kitchen floor! My whole life was about being a JW nothing didn't revolve around being a JW and preaching.

    But here I was fully discerning the truths that had been revealed about the WTS and asking that time honored JW question.....'Where will I go?' only to have the comfort of holy spirit in correcting my thought in clarity of not being 'where' but 'to whom'..........after that it was a calming peace.

    When you accept the invitation back fully in knowledge that you are loved, cherished and wanted ........you start to see God and Jesus both in a paternal light. Love is alway present, but they want you to do your best, be repentent when you fail, learn from the mistakes and love them in return enough to want to please, honor and respect them and heed their guidance.........probably not to different than your own father.

    You have to believe.......you have to accept this love into your heart on your own as something that is permanent and unending!

    Maybe you aren't ready yet, you have questions, a journey of exploration like the prodigal son.......so keep pressing, keep seeking until you are satisfied!

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    Ynot, Envisioning you lying on the kitchen floor crying is painful to me. I know that kind of pain. I hope it didn't last long.

    I'm glad you've always felt God's love. I know you're a very loving person. I'm happy you're at peace now.

  • Gregor

    Be washed clean in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB.

    (It wouldn't hurt to keep it in your pants and save it for a treat once in awhile.)

  • xmkx

    Sin is in our nature. Adam and Eve put us in quite a predicament. We want to take God's place as Judge over ourselves and if that isn't bad enough we at least have some idea of good and bad thanks to them eating the fruit but don't have a full understanding of it. So we sin unknowingly AND we sin knowingly then feel guilty about it and beat ourselves up over it, which incidently enough results in yet even more sin.

    God felt sympathy for us and loved us even more than a father loves his child so He came to earth and died so that we could be freed from sin and become holy in His eyes. There are a lot of different concepts on how atonement actually works, but that is the gist of it. Grace was born from this. It is complete and pure love for you with forgiveness of your sins, past, present, future, unknown, known. All of it. Once one experiences grace it is no longer an issue of making the effort not to sin. They naturally avoid it where possible, repent when they do, don't worry about about the unknown sins, and are freed from the guilt that comes with sin because they have been washed clean of sin through Christ.

    I used to beat myself up mentally over my sins, beg God for forgiveness, fear His punishment, and walk away unsure if I was forgiven or if God loved me. Once I accepted His love and sacrifice I felt more peaceful than I ever have in my life. I find myself naturally being a better person because Christ has shown me the way. I'm still a sinful creature by nature, but I trust God and God alone to judge me rather than judging myself and draw peace from the knowledge that God loves me, understands me, and has promised me salvation from my sins. When I knowingly commit a sin rather than feel guilty about it I pray to God and repent of the sin. This involves simply acknowledging that I sinned and asking for His help. God doesn't want your guilt any more than a father wants his child to walk around feeling guilty. He wants your love, acceptance, and recognition of what He has done for you - the same things a physical father wants from his child. It is a personal relationship with a spiritual father that loves and understands you more than you can even begin to imagine.

    It should be noted that if you have psychological issues like a lack of self love it's going to be a lot harder to recognize God's love. I struggled with the concept of atonement and grace for a loooong time and it wasn't until I went through therapy for my psychological issues (such as lack of self love and a big fat list of WBTS indoctrinated fears such as being wrong about God and getting destroyed) that I got to the point where I was able to recognize and accept these concepts.

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