Bad news, folks!

by TweetieBird 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • dungbeetle

    What Alan and the others said, and furthermore...

    is the child aware of previous teachings of the Watchtower? Since baptism means dedication to the organization, what if they went back to these teachings? They could, you know. Like the rape resistance, Sodom and Gomorah resurrections, elder appointments.

    I wish these young people could go to Laree Slack's parents or the Stovall brothers' trial. Let him read 'Blood crimes' by Fred Rosen. And on and on and on. <sigh>.

    And I really think some of the people have hit the nail on the head here.....what the heck is going on at home that makes the Jehovah's Witnesses look so good?

    These are tough questions, I know. The answers I think are inward, not outward, as with all aspiring cultists.

    In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"

  • LB

    My only thought would be to suggest that he should be an adult before making such a serious commitment. How about being at an age where it's ok to be married? At least out of his teens.

    Never Squat With Yer Spurs On

  • You Know
    You Know

    What a humilation for you. It shows once again that love of God in the heart is stronger than your hatred of the truth. / You Know

  • TweetieBird

    Thanks everyone for your comments.

    madA, my husband and I pay the bills in our home, but we don't want to protest too much as we feel this will drive him harder to be a witness.

    he is 15 and we have really encouraged him to get involved with kids in school. A couple of months ago he had a non-witness girlfriend and didn't have an interest in the witnesses. Unfortunately, they broke up so I'm hoping he'll set his eyes on someone else at school real soon.

    mrs. rocky,
    Great idea about the questions. I had not thought about that.

    freeman, alliwannadoislive, Mulan, AlanF, Mulan, Dungbeetle, LB, et all,
    We do feel that right now he is just trying to go along with all of his witness cousins. Probably the one he's closest to is getting baptized soon and I'm sure that is playing a big roll in his decisions right now. We also sat down with him yesterday and explained to him that Jesus was 30 when he was baptized and he was perfect, if that wasn't a clear example of being mature enough I don't know what is. We also told him that he was not old enough to get married, let alone get baptized.

    Great ideas, bringing up the dinosaurs. New points to think about.

    not sure I want to bring him to the board yet, he may get too spiritual and turn me in, but maybe later. I do, however, use a lot of what I learn here to share with others in the family.

    Please let me make this one fact clear to you...I do not hate truth, in fact it is my love for TRUTH that has caused me to investigate the religion of my birth (just following Society's orders). Also, it is not a humiliation for me, if my son ultimately decides he wants to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses and get baptized, I will whole-heartedly support his decision, as long as it is HIS decision and he is not doing it just to fit in with his friends. I have the maturity to know what is involved with getting baptized as a JW, he does not.
    I'm glad that he has a love of God in his heart.

    Incidentally, I have older children that we tried hard to make them live the witness lifestyle, they rebelled.

    "I must stand up in search of the truth, if I don't I only roll with the flow of the lie and make it stronger.

  • Danni

    What is the big deal about being baptized?

  • patio34

    Hi Tweetiebird,

    Sounds like good progress. The irony of it all: the older ones rebelled vs the JWs and this one 'rebels' vs leaving the JWs! Ya jest can't win!

    BTW, about the 'dinosaurs,' you spelled it correctly, I didn't in my 1st post. How embarrassing . . . it's a toughie for me to spell! LOL


    "It's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." (from "Stuart Saves His Family")

  • Trotafox

    Danni: Hi. Trotafox, here. We haven't met yet. Welcome to the Board. You asked "Whats the deal with being baptized?". The long and short of it is: Until you are baptized, you are not a JW; only an unbaptized publisher which means you can go door to door, attend meetings, are studied with (for more of that slow, slow indoctrination), etc. Once baptized, you have formally joined the organization and are expected to adhere to everything, and I do mean everything, without objection or question...ever. If you don't, you will be pressured to do so. If you don't, you will be disciplined via judicial committee and possibly disfellowshipped. If you disassociate yourself voluntarily, you more or less disfellowship yourself. Easy IN; HELL getting out. You leave and you are cut off from EVERYONE, including family. You are DEAD in their eyes. You are told not to even meet their eyes. Allowances are sometimes made, I believe, to a certain extent for spouses. Others can correct me, if I'm wrong. It is definitely a cult. Nuff said?

    TweetieBird: Communicate with him constantly. Make him think. I do like the idea of a 200 post requirement. That's good. That'll work. He probably will be conflicted at some point and will have to make a decision. Poor little guy. I really, really, can't stand the WTS when I see things like this being done.

    Trot (((hugs)))

    "Wicked men obey from fear; good men, from love".... Aristotle. You can love and obey Christ without intervention from an organization.

  • Scully

    I always thought it was strange how the Society would discourage quick courtships and engagements in favor of getting to know someone better before making such a huge commitment as marriage, while at the same time they say that six months' worth of 'Bible study' with the JWs is enough to make a sound decision regarding the more serious step of baptism.

    I like the suggestion of pointing out the changes in the baptismal questions. I would also highlight the fact that a person's baptism is regarded by the WTS's Legal Department as a CONTRACT with the WTS and not God. This is what allows them, with impunity, to DF and DA people, as they have won legal precedent on that basis. Most jurisdictions have very specific child protection laws forbidding minor children from entering contracts, or more to the point, to keep unscrupulous adults from taking advantage of kids. How the WTS has gotten away with this for such a long time is beyond me.

    I would be hesitant about introducing doctrinal issues that would raise doubts, unless you're prepared to have him confront his cousins with the same issues and have them, in turn, cause problems for you.

    You can't exactly forbid him from seeing his cousins either, as they would immediately play the "persecution" card, and knowing the psychology of teens, they would just go to where you forbid them to go. It's interesting that he would choose the JWs as an issue of rebellion against you, though. I used to talk to one lady on-line about this. The more she protested against her son's involvement with the JWs, the harder they love-bombed him. Eventually he got baptized at the age of 16, married a couple of years after that, and a child very soon after that. She pulled the "as long as you live under my roof, you will not get baptized" card. The JWs helped him move out a few weeks later, and he boarded with a JW couple. They have ALL the bases covered when someone wants to join them.

    While I definitely would not encourage his getting baptized, I would tell him that it's something he needs to do on the basis of ALL the information when he is legally an adult, not now and not just based on what JWs present to him. BTW, I thought a person had to study at least ONE publication (the Live Forever book was in vogue at the time I quit) prior to qualifying for baptism, in addition to answering the questions in the Organization book.

    You can also let him see Timothy Campbell's website about JWs. He doesn't call them a "cult" at all because of the derogatory connotation, but refers to them as a "high control group". He also states on his main page that he is not out to 'deconvert' JWs, that his site is one of academic interest to them.

    Hope it helps,
    Love, Scully

    It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63

  • bluesapphire

    That's very scarry. I don't know but I have a feeling he might be interested in a JW girl being around his cousins and all. Aren't his cousins leading the usual double lives that 99% of JW youth do? If they are, then he will surely see the hypocrisy.

    Having recently broken up with a girlfriend could also be the cause.

    My advice is to be really open minded with him. I would say this if it were my daughter, "Well, I respect your feelings of wanting to get baptized. In the 'Truth' book it says that a religion that tells lies cannot be true and it also says that every sincere person should investigate their religion. So I feel that for a decision of this magnitude you should thoroughly investigate the religion of your choice PRIOR to committing yourself to it forever and I am willing to assist you with this investigation."

    Then be ready with as much information to challenge the 1914 doctrine and the FDS doctrine. But don't attack. Just ask leading questions. Help him to reach the most logical and TRUTHFUL position.

    As for You Know, I used to believe he was sincere and deceived. Now I am with the others who believe he is the deceiver. Pay no attention to him.

  • garybuss

    Hi All,

    The trend I have noticed is this: The teen often goes opposite of where he thinks the parents want him to go. It is a rite of passage and a test of the parents to see if they are going to respect the autonomy of the adolescent. If they respect the autonomy, the test is done. If they do not, the test must continue to the next phase. The test will continue until the offspring's autonomy is unquestionably recognized by the parent(s) or until the relationship is fractured.

    The fracture is a forced autonomy.

    The Witness culture has an expectation of rejection feature built in and this is very easily applied to family members.

    Trouble is always right around the corner when two believers collide.

    Happy January everybody.


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