by alanv 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
Many years ago when I posed this question I was fobbed off with :
"There is such a thing as "community responsibility" the governments know what we (JW's) preach and so take responsibility for the deaths of their subjects "
No answer at all really, I comforted myself with the belief that a loving and just God would not destroy any who did not deserve it, and I would leave the details to Him, usual Dub non-thinking cop out on my part.
Love
Wobble
Whenever I get some justification line like that, wobble, I always ask them to show me the scripture that says it. The usual response is that it was in a WT awhile ago. Then I say something like, "oh, so it's not from the Bible?" Then they have no answer...
I remember the first time I heard someone say they never heard of the JWs. I was about 12. It shook my world. Then when I went to high school, most of my classmates had never heard of them ever. Then in college, a few more knew about them but thought they were crazy (literally). Even then most did not know who they were.
Now more people in the States know who they are because of jokes on TV and the no holiday rules. But even here there are a LOT of people that have never heard of JWs. When I went to preach abroad, everyone was like "Who? JWs? Oh, is that the same as Mormon? No? So are you catholic? No? So who are you? JW? Never heard of it. Where is your charity center located?"
It was unreal but understandable as the reputable religions all had some type of charity center for food, clothing, schooling or orphan care.
I would go so far as to say that 90% of the earth's population do not know who JWs are.
Now more people in the States know who they are because of jokes on TV and the no holiday rules.
A very telling comment.
The WT is always bragging about "a billion hours per year" preaching "the good news", yet here, in the USA, where the largest number of JWs are and the world headquarters is and where some territories are worked monthly, what do people know about JWs?
"Ummm...aren't they the guys who sell Watchtowers? And don't take blood transfusions? And don't celebrate Christmas?"
Think of it....Tens of billions of hours "proclaiming the kingdom", and for the minority of people (even in the USA) who know something about JWs, what do they know? Nothing about "Jehovah", nothing about "the Kingdom", nothing about "universal sovreignty"....just the goofy stuff.
If JWs really are Jehovah's "publicity agents", they're doing a piss-poor job of it. If I were Jehovah, I'd fire them.
The realization that (1) JWs really teach that you must be a JW to survive Armageddon and (2) billions of people have never heard of JWs was a key factor in my "awakening." In fact, my first topic posted on this board related to this issue.
I've heard the "community responsibility" cop-out. As far as I know, it's still an official doctrine, but I don't think it's been mentioned in print in a long time (decades, perhaps). Only older or more studious JWs would be familiar with it today.
I've found that most modern JWs--especially those in their 20s and 30s--don't believe you must be a JW to survive Armageddon. Rather, they believe that God and Jesus will read people's hearts. That's what I used to believe. The problem is that this doctrine is not in WT publications. In fact, it contradicts established JW doctrine (for example, the "mark for survival" in Ezekiel).
When I point this out to JWs, they fall back on the "trust in Jehovah" line and say that they're just leaving it in his hands. The important thing now is to be active in the preaching work in order to avoid bloodguilt. Of course, by saying that preaching is required to avoid bloodguilt, this is a tacit admission that God will kill people who don't receive the JW message. So, either way the JWs can't win. The circular logic is making me dizzy.
I've always said if you conducted a survey and tried to speak to thousands of members of the general public at say a very busy railway station and asked them "what is the message of the kingdom of God preached by The WTS?" day in day out questioning these thousands of people, they simply would not have a clue, they would very likely say that all we know about JW's is that they abstain from blood and dont celebrate Xmas and birthdays. I question any Dub to prove otherwise and we are speaking of an example of a city like London as a JW stronghold with many congs.
Here is the WTS out on talking to everyone:
*** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 17 “Keep on the Watch” ***Fifth, we see a global preaching work being accomplished, which Jesus said would take place just before the end of this system. Jesus stated: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.
So the Bible says the good news must be preached "in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" but the WT says "the good news must be preached to Jehovah's satisfaction."
Who do you serve and who do you trust?
IT CAN'T BE BOTH.
Blondie, I've heard that justification as well--namely that just like Jesus said the disciples wouldn't complete the circuit of the cities, the JWs may not make it to every country. The problem is that--as Mad Sweeney points out--such an interpretation contradicts Matt. 24:14. Either the good news must be preached in all the inhabited earth before the end comes...or it doesn't. Jesus said yes; the WTS said no.
This is a great example of the sort of theological pretzels into which the WTS ties itself. The WTS must emphasize the importance of its preaching work (hence the constant use of Matt. 24:14) but it must also make it seem like The End is imminent. If Matt. 24:14 really means what it says, then The End CANNOT be imminent. Thus, the WTS must twist Matt. 24:14 to mean something that it does not say--namely that the gospel must be preached to some portion of the inhabited earth before The End comes.
And to think we actually took this nonsense seriously...
And I love how they try to compare Matthew 10:23 about not completing the circuit of cities of Israel before the Son of Man arrives. But according to the WT, he ALREADY ARRIVED invisibly in 1914 and has BEEN PRESENT ever since. Yet another ridiculous pretzel twist from the scholars in Brooklyn.
