Is it reasonable to believe that the Son of God didn't have the communication skills required to make that point without killing a perfectly good fig tree?
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The Jesus you describe makes no sense in accordance with everything else that he taught and did. Most of the above makes no sense to me either. A fig tree does not have the ability to decide not to bear fruit, so implying that Jesus should have forgiven it for not bearing fruit sounds silly to me.
I'm sorry. But if the entire idea that a fig tree could have been deserving of forgiveness or not makes no sense, then the only thing that does make sense is that this particular explanation/interpretation of this story is incorrect.
It does make sense that this was a parallel to the teachers of the law and Pharisees who were not producing fruit for the Kingdom of God. Because this was Jesus' message through many of his teachings. Perhaps this message was so important that Jesus applied it in a physical example, and as such, he would have no need to admit a wrongdoing... since it served a real, and in this case, powerful purpose.
The supposed 'message' from his actions simply do not have anything to do with his actions.
Again, I disagree with this assessment. Deriving a message from his actions makes sense based on all available information. I think your assessment is completely taken out of context, and I think it does dismiss everything else that we know about Jesus. I'm sorry, but I can read this passage over and over, keeping in mind what Jesus taught and did... and I just don't see any basis for your conclusion.
Didn't see your other post. Sorry.
But you have to take these scriptures in context with the others. You can't come to an educated and rational understanding otherwise.
Mark 22 And in reply Jesus said to them: “Have faith in God. 23 Truly I say to YOU that whoever tells this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but has faith that what he says is going to occur, he will have it so. 24 This is why I tell YOU, All the things YOU pray and ask for have faith that YOU have practically received, and YOU will have them. 25 And when YOU stand praying, forgive whatever YOU have against anyone; in order that YOUR Father who is in the heavens may also forgive YOU YOUR trespasses.” 26 ——
Matt 21 In answer Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU, If only YOU have faith and do not doubt, not only will YOU do what I did to the fig tree, but also if YOU say to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. 22 And all the things YOU ask in prayer, having faith, YOU will receive.”
It seems to me, that you are both superimposing what he said on other occasions onto this one and conveniently forgetting to discuss what he is quoted as saying on this occasion.
Please discuss how what Jesus reportedly said on this occasion supports your conclusions that he was talking about Pharisees, on this occasion?
Blacksheep You really love figs heh! Me I don't care for them. Now if it were a mango or custard apple tree I'd be pissed off too
Hi Luo bou to,
Figs are nice, but I am a tropical nutter at heart. As a kid, I knew where every fruit tree in my area was. I have fond memories of crawling on our bellies through pineapple plantations, looking for a ripe one, with my friends who are no longer with us.
I am in a sub-tropical climate now, but I have bananas providing food and shade in my garden.
Custard apples should be available soon at a roadside stall, but it is too frosty to try and grow them at my place.
Mangos. I love mangos. I need to go back to the islands in the right season. Last time I went back, the islands got hit by a hurricane the night I arrived. No mangos, no passionfruit, no papaya, even the beaches were washed away. I found only one of those big fat yellow guavas the whole time I was there. I saved it for a fruit salad for breakfast the morning I left.
The frosts in NZ knock its progeny back every year and I have never had a ripe fruit from it
Our local figs will be ripe soon
Crawling through a pineapple patch on your bellies OUCH Same here re raiding the neighborhood fruit trees until my mother spoiled it by suggesting I ask the householder first " yeah sure darling help yourself" was there usual reply The fruit never tasted the same when I did that. Fond memories of being chased by a chink with a shotgun after raiding his market garden of watermelons.
Back on topic Can't agree with your opinion of Jesus though. Any dude that changes water into plonk is alright by me. Fuck the fig tree
I've never tried making wine or spirits out of figs. You have just given me an idea.
Good morning, Blacksheep
I have done what you asked, although I stand by the fact that you cannot get a true understanding of the man or of his full message without putting both into context.
But after reading both accounts, setting aside everything else that I know about Jesus, and concentrating solely on these two passages... what I see is only a lesson on the power of faith and prayer. A lesson made even more profound because of its physical nature.
Matthew 21:21 - 'Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to this fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea, and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.'
However, I would not presume to make an assumption about Jesus' character from these passages. (I would not presume to make an assumption about anyone based on one story about them... this is unfair and biased judgment) I would look at other things about Jesus, in order to get a complete picture of who he was and what he taught, and it would quickly become clear to me that he was not the "psychotic tyrant with an inferiority complex" that you named him.
As a direct result of learning more about Jesus and his teachings, I would have learned about the Pharisees and teachers of the law whom he condemned for not producing fruit for the Kingdom of God... and my conclusions would have been the same as I have already stated.