Suicide and This and That .....
I'm not sure if you're asking for solutions or experiences, but I'll share my experience and see where this leads me...
The majority of my life has been held under the grips of a fierce depression. Full blown suicidal tendencies and panic attacks in the midst of this. I've tried twice to committ suicide - once very shortly after I left the dubs at 19 and another just about two years ago.
The first time I didn't succeed because my roommate walked in on me as I was downing a quart of vodka and a handful of sleeping pills. She rushed me to the emergency room that evening. I spent that night (New Years Eve) at the hospital getting my tummy pumped and crying my heart out to the people in little white uniforms. My parents were notified, lived 15 minutes away, and didn't even come see me. My roommate and her husband stayed with me for two more days as I recuperated in the hospital. They also saw to it that I found a counselor and a psychiatrist who could prescribe anti-depressants and provide me talk therapy. If it weren't for Tonya and Daniel Wilson I would probably be dead today.
Two years ago I didn't succeed because just as I was about to down a quart of vodka and a handful of sleeping pills, my phone rang. It was about midnight and my Sunday School teacher was calling to check on me. He said he just had a weird feeling about me not doing well and wanted to let me know he was there to help. I broke down crying and explained what I was about to do. He stayed on his cell phone talking to me until he reached my home by his car. He helped me pack a bag and I stayed with him and his wife for the next two weeks. If it weren't for Neal and Jayne Knighton, I'd probably be dead today.
I believe that suicidal feelings/thoughts is one of the worst things a human can experience. Life problems are difficult no matter what age, time of your life, religious beliefs, sex, or economic status. But when you don't have the mental and emotional facilities to cope with those life problems they can overwhelm anyone. Kenny2 said it wonderfully earlier:
I was told that suicidal feelings are the result of ones pain exceeding their coping abilities. So the answer is to either reduce the pain or escalate the ability to cope.I also believe that these coping abilities are skills. They are things that can be taught. Unfortunately, because history shows us that JW's are typically at a lower emotional maturity level than most people, which means they probably have not been taught these coping skills. That's why I think suicide rates are higher with JW's than most. Their version of coping is "wait on Jehovah". Now don't get me wrong...I believe patience and time (or Jehovah) can be a healing friend, but that doesn't help a person in the throes of anguish. It doesn't help right at that moment. What can? A hug. A friend willing to listen. A friend willing to just be there and watch tv with. Medication. Professional therapy. An email from someone concerned. A poem. A scripture. Someone praying with and for me.
My experience is that most people who are threatening suicide don't really want to die. They just want their pain to go away and they don't know how to do it.
My depression and suicidal thoughts have pretty much disappeared in the last two years. Why? I think for several reasons:
1. I allowed myself to be helped by others. Friends, counselors, God, parental figures...anyone who would voice their thoughts about my value to them. I began to realize how much I would hurt them if I took my life. Do I believe I would hurt God if I took my life. Absolutely! He would cry like nobody else on this earth. I don't doubt it. He understands my pain better than anybody else on this earth. He comforted me when I let Him.
2. I changed my thinking patterns. I was strict and yet gentle on myself. I would picture myself as a friend. Would I let myself say negative things to a friend of mine? No. Why am I doing it to myself? I started thinking positively. I started focusing on the blessings in my life. I started surrounding myself with positive people. When someone had a negative or hurtful personality I stayed away from them. I did this until I got stronger emotionally.
3. I stopped eating wheat products. Sometimes depression is a manifestation of a physical issue. With me it was a reaction to wheat gluten. I have a sensitivity to wheat gluten that does not mix well with my chemical balance. Anytime I get depressed or suicidal now it is very typically because I've eaten something I knew I shouldn't have. This is a hereditary issue...my bi-ploar father has it as well, but he doesn't stick to his diet. As a result he is an angry, bitter, rageful man.
It never really helped me when someone told me to "pull my socks up". That usually got me more depressed. I know that strategy works well for others though. I think the key is to remember that depression grips people differently. The answer to solving depression is going to be different for different people. I personally try to be gentle and encouraging as I know that works best for me.
These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure I'll add more later, but I have to run now.
Celtic, thanks for letting me think out loud like this. It's healing to me to type it you know!
Someone in the room, actually quite a few were most concerned for Kevin's welfare and we were trying to notify the appropriate authorities for positive action to be taken to remedy the situation.
We were all concerned but as I said there was another agenda you were blissfully unaware of .. mail me and I'll tell you OK?
All I asked for was a window of space for a few minutes to ascertain the facts of the situation clearly. During this time you wanted to talk most inappropriately about sex, as though that was more important. I was shocked to be honest by your somewhat callous attitude.Wrong again Celtic. Email me. Keven was not even in the room and you guys said his threat was an hour before. If you needed space that's your problem. You can't always have your way with the snap of your fingers. I too was involved in trying to help but one particular poster entering the room changed that for several minutes OK? There was actually someone in the room more in need in that space at that time. As soon as I could I reverted back to asking about Kevin did i not? .. I got his address from someone in chat, immediately logged off and emailed him, I then alerted the board to the situation by a BOLD POSTING.
As for sex I wasn't keen on the rough way you were talking about it the other day so I left. Some knives cut both ways I guess.
And I might be wrong, but truthfully, I think that sums you up, your quite a callous person, you dont really care all that much and so when someone is trying to better the world around them you see this as weakness on their part and set out to attack those views, very much as you are trying to do with this post now, you undermine the good intentions of others at the worst times possible and honestly I cannot make out your attitude.Where and when have I ever called an individual weak? Well maybe you I guess. Email me and things might clear in your head a tad.
Whether the issues are large or small seems to me to be totally irrelevant, its not the point and you score often by mising the point entirely. Whether this be due to some inadequacy on your behalf or some deeper issue, I know not, just to say, I am heartily sick and tired at times of your make believe, put downs and general negativity, why do you bother posting at all? Is this all just 'entertainment' value for you? Why not try being a little more socially responsible?[/quote]
I'm not interested in "scoring" Celtic, I'm one of those strange fellows trying to enjoy the journey rather than the destination. What's more socially responsible leaving peoples egos and delusions in tact or giving them food for thought and a few laughs at the same time. If people can't laugh at themselves t that is no concern of mine. I'm open to be critisised anytime anyone likes. If you really feel this way why not tell me at the time in the thread concerned instead of letting me niggle at you till you post airy fairy accusations with no substance in sight?
[quot]BTW Suggesting to Kevin that you will wrap him up in a blanket and throwing him off the peir yourself, well, I mean, where the friggin hec are you coming from?[/quote]
Sounds to me like you've had no experience at all helping the suicidal. I actually wrapped a suicidal young sister up in a blanket and threw her in the river Murray about 18 years ago. You know what .. that was one thing that helped turn her life around. I've lost contact with Jackie but she thanked me for years afterward.
I'm not saying I'm perfect but you appear to suffer tunnel vision and don't seem very experienced in handling a crisis Celtic. I'm really not interested in your opinion of me. You know nothing about me. I don't doubt others see me here the way you do but so what? I'm too old to pretend i'm someone I'm not and too busy to care what folk say in the shadows. We post and get posted at, if some prefer to grumble in thier tea instead of calling me a SOB to my face so be it, no one cares less than yours truly.
It's good you're concerned about suicide Celtic, I'd like to post long on it one day.
cheers, unclebruce whose say means no more or less than any other poster. (except YouKnow .. he's definitely weak in the truth)
PS: Gee aren't we being brutally honest with each other .. great stuff ;)
PSS: I've told you several times now i have a good deal to do with suicidal folk .. then again they were all mad australians like me.
PSSS: Your heart's in the right place Celtic, I just wish it'd pump a tad faster sometimes.
Suicide ...My son attempted it, he never told anyone about it, he just did it. I think mostly a person who is serious about it does not want help, but only to end the pain.
Depression feelings of helplessness can lead to suicide.
A person in this condition does not want words of wisdom about life or some idiot telling him to get layed with some woman or please look at my website etc.
I agree with TR, that unless you really know the person there is little you can do effectively.
A suicidal Person is not going to think to himself: "I will just look at this information first".
A cry for help can be dealt with in a compassionate way, I find that some female posters on this forum are very good with empathy.
I hae been in that position.. I have contemplated suicide and even sent the children away so I could carry out my plan. I am so very thankful that my one adopted sister (Sue) did not leave me alone. She didn't do as so many other said - "pull up the bootstraps" Nor did she give the pattented Dub responce "You Need to get to a meeting.."
She stayed with me... Kept me busy.. got involved.
I am alive due to her persistance. And her LOVE!!
How sad that so many though do not have anyone who is willing to take the interest as she did.
How hard it was to realize that I was one of only 2 people who noticed she was missing!! That she needed help. She is in the same position that I had been when she saved me!!
Poeple need to quit being so negative and start to care about one another!!
My thoughts are with you Celtic.....
Suicide; i have had experience of it with others many times;usually due to childhood experiences.To feel the need to end your life is quite often simply the way a human will deal with a situation or psycological trauma that is simply too much for that individual to cope with; hence, shut down to protect the brain from any more.My brother pulled himself back also three friends.When the shut down reaction occurs it can only be halted if the person can find a way out.Sometimes a board like this could help; but as we are only untrained friends perhaps whilst offering support unconditionally and speedily; we should also have a SAMARITIANS phone no. on every header,as i do feel the sound of a soothing human voice so much more calming than words on a screen. Also, it's such a horrendous feeling to see a poster talking suicide; it panics me , but as i said im untrained and may say the wrong thing...perhaps we could have a perminant piece on the board ;clearly marked so that suicidal posters can go to it and read where to go; what to do;but it'd have to be written by profs... i can ask a friend whos a samaritains councellor or another who's a doc to write an appropriate piece; though i'd neen help to get it on the board in the right place! Or failing all that if you all think they're crappy suggestions... if its a uk poster i'll meet them with someone prof. if they want; just can't bear to think someone could be that low with no one.