Suicide and This and That .....
And to Uncle Bruce.
Frankly, no, I dont get your point at all. Again, you misinterpret the situation, but I've noticed that generally your very good at that.
In chat earlier this morning, I was not personally attacking you. Lets talk facts Uncle Bruce, not bullshit, ok? Someone in the room, actually quite a few were most concerned for Kevin's welfare and we were trying to notify the appropriate authorities for positive action to be taken to remedy the situation. All I asked for was a window of space for a few minutes to ascertain the facts of the situation clearly. During this time you wanted to talk most inappropriately about sex, as though that was more important. I was shocked to be honest by your somewhat callous attitude.
And I might be wrong, but truthfully, I think that sums you up, your quite a callous person, you dont really care all that much and so when someone is trying to better the world around them you see this as weakness on their part and set out to attack those views, very much as you are trying to do with this post now, you undermine the good intentions of others at the worst times possible and honestly I cannot make out your attitude.
Whether the issues are large or small seems to me to be totally irrelevant, its not the point and you score often by mising the point entirely. Whether this be due to some inadequacy on your behalf or some deeper issue, I know not, just to say, I am heartily sick and tired at times of your make believe, put downs and general negativity, why do you bother posting at all? Is this all just 'entertainment' value for you? Why not try being a little more socially responsible? BTW Suggesting to Kevin that you will wrap him up in a blanket and throwing him off the peir yourself, well, I mean, where the friggin hec are you coming from?
No,I have never thought of committing suicide although I have suffered from severe depression and panic attacks too. I realised that I had only matured in certain areas, a bit like a lop sided cake that hasn't risen properly, and that I was not coping well with personal conflicts. Maybe it was th upbringing.
I read everything that I could lay my hands on to get better. I found that reading about Transactional analysis helped me understand what ws going on inside my head. I learned how to COPE, how to live with depression, if only for the sake of my loved one's.
Over a period of years I gradually got better, until about 10 years ago I saw where my last hurdle lay, at that point I ceased to need the approval of others to feel a sense of wellbeing.
Bet you never thought you'd be hearing this from E-Man!
Bring on the dancing girls!
Just seen your note to UB, I would also have made Kevin a similar offer. So would any therapist. Reality is the name of the game here. I had a close relative threaten suicide, I said that that was their choice, I would be sorry but in no way would I feel responsible, go ahead, do it.
I got a whack around the face, but although I have never seen that person again, she ain't bumped herself off yet!
Bring on the dancing girls!
well, what a coincidence.. I've spent the last week dealing with a young girl who tried to harm herself.... She's been thinking of killing herself since she was in grade 7. The poor girl has had some really hard knocks and it seemed to her to be the only solution. It was really hard for her to come to tell me what she had done but one of her friends got her to me so I could help. I'm glad we got her the help she needed in time... it could have been so much worse... I do deal with several younger kids, 15-25, some of whom have dealt with feelings of suicide... I have an environment at home where the kids, mostly my son's friends, can tell me absolutely anything and I won't judge them or yell at them... I just listen, and that's what they, for the most part, want/need ... every once in a while, someone turns up really needing help, and I'm glad the kids think they can come to me...
I've learned from an early age (a friend of mine committed suicide when I was 15) never to ignore any threat of suicide, especially online as there is less information to go on... you can't see the face of the individual and you can't read in their comments everything that is going on. It's important to offer support, talk it through with them and to offer contact when possible and to try to find out where that person is....
I wasn't online when kevin was dealing with his difficulties... I hope he got or gets the help he really needs... it's such a dark place to be, and from what I can get, he was quite isolated... he was reaching out for help and he came here. It's a testament to this online community that he could reach out here...
I hope this little experience helps Celtic... we all deal with the dark inside of us at sometime, some of us have a larger darkness to deal with. I feel it is simple human decency to help out where able and to at least do the best you can. I have found a few wonderful people here who are likewise and am comforted by that.
You are right, those talking about suicide are more asking for help than death. There is a point of despair that is sometimes reached and can be viewed as permanent. Of course it isn't but that can be hard to see at the time.
Personally suicide has never been an option I seriously considered. My dad, a very intelligent and sensible man, used to tell me that suicide was bad decision making, "a permanent solution to a temporary problem." I agree with this but understand how the desperate mindset can lose sight of the "temporary problem" part of it.
As humans our biggest mistake can be to limit our hopes and dreams and to let our determination be discouraged.
Just my two cents worth...
Celtic, in defense of UB. Some people go about things in different ways.
Just because I do things the way I do does not mean mine is the right way. You never know, the way UB approached the matter might work. We never know.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consentEleanor Roosevelt
Got any other agendas?
Up until my daughter was born I had considered suicide a few times...felt that there was nothing good in my life, that I was worthless and nothing and no one could change it... I managed with help and several drugs to get past it. Since my daughter was born I could not conceive doing that to her. Both my grandmothers committed suicide and I know the psycological damage it did to my parents even though they were both adults when it happened.
Threats of suicide and the act itself is a cry for help from someone who can't see any other way to get help and who doesn't feel there is anyone in the world who would care if they were gone. At least that is what it was for me...
I think most of the people on this board are caring giving thoughtful people...I have seen them reach out to ones who are hurting...everyone deals with things in different ways and sometimes we don't fully understand why someone is acting out the way they are. There are some very strong people on this board and I don't think they aren't compassionate Celtic, I think that they just have a hard time understanding where someone who is having a harder time dealing with things is coming from. Empathy usually only comes when you have been there and done that.
On the portion of your post concerning why people post to the fluff and not the more serious postings...well I can't answer for anyone else but I don't usually like to share my deeper feelings...I don't like to be open...I feel like shit because I admitted twice now that I cry...lol it is funny people that know me in real life would have a hard time believeing that I did admit that...I tend to keep my emotions very close and use humor to cover over my pain. I don't like to deal with it and I don't like to be reminded of it. This is the place I come to get away from it. This is my refuge...where I come to try and forget the pain and totally fucked up life I have...can you understand that?
I ain't no therapist, but maybe different methods help different people, depending on their different problems.
I had two relatives that committed suicide. My uncle(dad's brother) and my grandfather(dad's dad). My grandpa had emphasima and cancer, he got tired of coping with the pain and treatments, so he offed himself. My uncle, who lived a good distance from the rest of the family, was divorced. A few years after his kids left the house, he got lonely and offed himself. Nobody had a clue, because we didn't keep in touch very well and he didn't give anyone a clue as to how he felt. Unfortunately, there wasn't much we could do in those situations.
I have an XJW friend that lives near Seattle, and he's got some depression issues. His daughter at age 5 was dumped at his doorstep by an unbelievably uncaring tramp of a mother.(A one night stand before he became a witness) He had fought for years to get visitation rights, then one day the bitch just abandoned the kid. By the time she got to junior high school, she rebelled and ran away several times. She 17 now, and my friend doesn't know where his daughter is.
"Jake" has been on several life threatening alcohol binges in the last several years. I've always been able to figure out when he does this, and get someone to help him. We keep in regular contact, and he's finally coming to terms with the fact that he can't control his daughter.
My point to all this is, it seems to me that you need to know the person(or be a professional)to be able to help them if indeed they can be helped. Telling someone you don't know not to take their life seems shallow to the person(I guess) and maybe won't do much good.
Just some thoughts.
"YK is his name, false prophecy is his game"
I have felt suicidal several times in my life. I didn't so much feel that no one was out there to help me, but that I didn't deserve their help. By the time I became suicidal, I'd usually been down for weeks and months and felt that all I ever did was moan, groan, whine, and complain. Why should I continually subject my family and friends to this sort of stuff?
It didn't help to be told "just pull your socks up." When someone said that, I knew that they didn't understand how debilitating depression can be. When depressed, it was an effort to get out of bed in the morning and take a shower, much less tackle difficult emotional obstacles.
As for your experimental posts, I was turned off by them because of the tone. Reading them, it felt as though you were telling us what we should and ought to do, and this, for me, is very akin to judging. It is probably a vestige of my JW experience, but I am also leery of organized group efforts now. I've seen how groups quickly evolve into hierarchies and how a group's initial intentions can get perverted over time.
I'm sometimes discouraged, too, when I see "serious" posts, ones I feel cut to the core of what causes the harm within the JW world, slide quickly down the active view while social posts, FredHall, and YouKnow hover at the top. At the same time, I realize it's not for me to judge what is important or helpful. If I want to make a contribution to the board, for me it has to be just that--a free gift, no strings, no expectations.
Logic is not enough to heal someone after the JW experience. We need to grieve and run through the whole gamut of emotions associated with grief--anger, sadness, guilt, remorse, inadequacy, depression. My guess is that by the time most folks have reached this board, they've usually already had some questions and doubts and have done some research and are probably ready for the emotional release of venting and just having some fun. I also think each of us needs to reassure ourselves that we've thought through the beliefs correctly this time. Pointing out the flaws in arguments from the likes of YouKnow are helpful in this regard.
As a community here then, what more do you feel could be done, even idealistically, to bring such ones back to a sense of warmth and security once more?When a person is suicidal, he needs professional help in person. Much as we may want to help, our influence on a discussion board and in chat is very limited.
I cannot provide an instant sense of warmth and security for anyone; this is something that each person must create for himself. When I'm able, I'm willing to offer my understanding and support.
For myself, I prefer to handle each situation individually as it occurs. I might offer my phone number to some folks. At other times, I don't have the emotional reserves to help anyone else. Always I would urge depressed people to seek professional help from a therapist.