The Sign of Matthew 24 shows we ARE NOT in the last days

by Mad Sweeney 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Larsinger58

  Everything has been fulfilled as the Bible says. It is a matter of interpretation. Let's look at a few

  Sign 1. Many people saying they are the Christ. Hasn't happened. Maybe a handful of loons have showed up making the claim in my lifetime. Nothing close to "many."

  This is taken generically for those preaching "Christ" or the way but who are false prophets. In this sense even the GB would be included among those claiming they are the "Christ". Christ means "anointed."

  Sign 2. You will hear of wars and reports of wars/nation against nation. Wars have ebbed and flowed throughout the centuries. Since the end of WWII, things have remained pretty much the same with no real increase in conflicts globally for 65 years.

  You completely missed the point. The "last generation" begins not with regular conflicts but when you see "nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom" that is, when a World War erupts is when you begin the last generation. That was clearly WWI.

  Sign 3. Food shortages. The 20th century didn't eradicate starvation, and the total number of hungry is up, but the rate of starvation is way down. Food production has boomed and a much greater percentage of the world is being fed than was the case pre-1914.

  The "Great Depression" qualifies this interpretation in the post 1914-era, but pre-Holocaust.

  Sign 4. Earthquakes. The frequency and power of earthquakes has been consistent and stable for thousands and thousands of years.

  Good point. Unfortunately, "earthquakes" is a poor to mistranslation here and should be "tremors" or "agitations" in reference to social unrest in the world in various places. Not actual earthquakes. Sorry about that.

  Sign 5. Tribulation and killing of Christians as objects of hatred by ALL nations. Not happening. There is local persecution in various places but mass killing of Christians in all nations? Not even close.

  This specifically relates to both Jews and Jehovah's witnesses who did suffer persecution and especially the Jews. So this is fulfilled. Both the Witnesses and the Jews were specific tagets of Nazzi Germany, which fulfills the "disgusting thing in a holy place" the "holy place" being the Jews and JWs. So this was easily fulfilled during the Holocaust.

  Sign 6. Stumbling/betrayals/hatred. Hard to quantify.

  This is easily fulfilled by the state of the WTS after the death of CT Russell. There was betrayal and stumbling.

  Everything has been fulfilled. In Matthew the "great tribulation" is the Holocaust. It is not Armageddon because it is completely over even before the second coming occurs. "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..."

  LS
• 

  PSacramento

  This specifically relates to both Jews and Jehovah's witnesses who did suffer persecution and especially the Jews. So this is fulfilled. Both the Witnesses and the Jews were specific tagets of Nazzi Germany, which fulfills the "disgusting thing in a holy place" the "holy place" being the Jews and JWs. So this was easily fulfilled during the Holocaust.

  To put the JW's in the same category as the Jews in terms of persecution is, well, idiotic.

  The Jw's have never been persecuted liek that, not even one 10th of that.

  The early christians were far more persecuted as where the protestant reformists.

  It boogle the mind what passes as persecution in some people's eyes.
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  Larsinger58

  Sign 9. Good news preached in all earth/all nations. Not sure about this one. Are there Christian missionaries in the Uyghur provinces of China? In Pakistan? All nations? Really?

  You're interpreting this to mean every single person on the planet would hear the "good news" preached by Jehovah's witnesses vs the "good news" being an internationally preached doctrine vs a local church.

  When the Bible Students started, they were just one some congregation. It is within the concept that this small congregation would become an international organization by the time of the "end" occurs that is fulfilled.

  The "end" is not Armagddon. The "end" in the context of Matthew 24 was the "end of the current SYSTEM OF THINGS" the Jews found themselves under, which is the same as the "gentile times" or the "appointed times of the nations." They were waiting for the end of the gentile times. Thus the "good news" would reach around the globe by 1947 when the true end of the gentile times occurred. That is, when the Jews officially came out of exile.

  The technical END occurred on November 30, 1947 when the Jews were partitioned land in Palestine that became the State of Israel. But earlier that year, president NH Knorr went on an around-the-globe lecture tour. That proves that there were witnesses around the world, even if not in every single place. Further, the Biblical context of the preaching of the good news is primarily focussed on the preaching within the establishe Christian community, not the entire world or in particular non-Christian populations.

  Therefore, in that context, the "good news" was preached worldwide by November 30, 1947 which is when the "end" of the current system of things, that is the "appointed times of the nations" ended.

  Finally, if we impose that last "generation" was 80 years after the first sign, a world war, to be fulfilled the "sign of the son of man" in heaven confirming the second coming would logically have to occur prior to 1994, that is, 80 years after 1914.

  Well, per Bible prophecy, if the end of the gentile times occurred in 1947 then that also ended the 1290 days. That means the 1335 days, 45 years later, would date the second coming in 1992. Another prophecy indicates the messiah's first passover/Lord's supper would be mid-70th week of the last 70 weeks. That means Passover of April 6, 1993. Either way you slice it, the second coming did occur before that generation ran out in 1994.

  So Matthew is fulfilled...if you have the correct interpretation and are looking for the correct things.

  LS
• 

  JeffT

  You completely missed the point. The "last generation" begins not with regular conflicts but when you see "nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom" that is, when a World War erupts is when you begin the last generation. That was clearly WWI.

  The Seven Years War (1756-1763) involved the same people, pretty much fighting for the same reasons. Did the last generation begin in 1756?

  Sign 6. Stumbling/betrayals/hatred. Hard to quantify.

  This is easily fulfilled by the state of the WTS after the death of CT Russell. There was betrayal and stumbling.

  Also easily fulfilled by Mormons, Dougobors, Millerites, Shakers, Puritans, Moonies, Muslims, Zoroastrians, and others past, present and no doubt in the future.
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  isaacaustin

  larsinger can you please provide me with a webiste to give a synopsis of your group JIOR?
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  lovelylil2

  Hebrews 1 identifies the "last days" as already began when this text was written;

  1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

  The last days includes the first century, our currernt time period and the time up until the 2nd coming of Christ.

  The point of Matthew 24 is to show that during this entire time period of last days, however long they may be, we would continue to live in a world filled with uncertainty including, strifes, wars, earthquakes, false prophets, persecution of the church, etc. but we (the church) need not to be overly concerned with these things so as to loose faith in God. For these things are only temporary and the clock has already started ticking towards the end, at which time God's promise of the "new heaven, and new earth" we are awaiting, will be realized. He who endures, in the faith, until the end is saved. Peace, Lilly
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  isaacaustin

  And Acts also mentions that the last days began at the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, in chapter 2 it states that Joel 2:32 had been fulfilled.
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  lovelylil2

  yes, here it is;

  Acts 2:17 " 'In the lastdays, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
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  Larsinger58

  MATTHEW FULFLILED.

  Look at some clear-cut fulfillments.

  1. "Good news" by JWs preached worldwide before November 30, 1947. NH Knorr had a world-wide speaking engagement earlier that year proving the WTS was a worldwide organization by this time. November 30, 1947 was the "end of the gentile times."

  2. The "great tribulation" has to occur. This is prophesied to be like no other event. This "great tribulation" was the Holocaust. It is not Armageddon as many think, including JWs. It did happen. It was scheduled to occur for 7 years from 1940-1947, but the "days were cut short" for the sake of the "holy ones", meaning the Jews, or else no flesh would be saved. This has a literal application to the prophesied 2/3rds that were to be exterminated (Zech 13v8) which was reached by late 1944. Had the war continued more than 2/3rds of the Jews might have been exterminated. Hitler wanted to exterminate every Jew and half-Jew on the planet. So that was fulfilled, though the official "end" of the gentile times relates to the end of the exile and their new land being returned, which occurred later in 1947.

  3. After the Holocaust ("Immediately after the tribulation of those days..) and after the State of Israel is set up (the budding of the "fig tree") the messiah and the "sign of the son of man" was to begin to appear shortly afterward. It did! It appeared to the elect after the birth of the person who would become the messiah in 1992. That "sign" was the close-up image of a sleeping child created by black clouds which confirmed the new messiah would be a black man. Imagery of that sign appeared in 1998 in the "Revelation Book" showing a sleeping black child next to a bird. The sign consisted of a sleeping black child and an eagle. The artwork in the Revelation Book confirms the sign had appeared as prophesied.

  So that was fulfilled. Why didn't you ask about the "sign of the son of man"?

  It has a few details. For one, it appears in the sky, in heaven. The sign is imagery in the clouds of the sleeping black messiah. Two, the sign when seen causes the elect to "beat themselves in lamentation" and mourn! WHY? Why the mourning as if someone is dead? Because they see someone dead. They see the dead black child representing the messiah. Why? Because the person who becomes the messiah, a JWs, falls away from the faith and gets disfellowshipped for fornication. He fulfills the life of the "prodigal son" and thus he becomes a dead messiah for a while and they mourn over his spiritual death. Of course, he returns at the last minute and God makes him the messiah. But that is why there is mourning! That is why the messiah is called a "carcass"--because at one point he dies. The sign thus must be consistent with someone dead, which it is. It's the symbol of the dead messiah.

  Fulfilled!

  LS
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  PSacramento

  It is clear that many though the last days were happening after Jesus died, Paul addressed this view in Thessalonians 1 and 2.

  No doubt the persecution of the Christians by Nero, the destruction of the temple and the further persecutions after that, cememented that view on many peoples minds.