by tenyearsafter 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The only problem I see with holy spirit being a seperate personage rather than 'active force' is.....
NWT: (Matthew 1:18) . . .But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. . .
I checked other translations and they too say similar..... so if hs is a seperate 'person' then isn't Jesus the son of hs rather than God the Father.
Don't Christians believe that God and Jesus are SPIRITS? ...and HOLY? or are they flesh and blood, living on Alcyone?
I think the Bible writers may have intended the same use as the WT writers basically do what we say or else god isn't going to like it and his spirit will pull away from you, whether the spirit was a person place or thing would all depend on the the indoctrination of the writers or the translator and is up for grabs IMO.
Ynot - That is a very good question! The Holy Spirit also "in dwells" believers, so does that mean they are possessed by a "person". This is a very difficult subject to reconcile completely for me.
Matthew 1:18 could still imply a person, but begs the question you raise..."is Jesus the son of God the Father or God the Holy Spirit"?
Clear as mud, huh?
Nathan - I believe Christians would say that the Trinity is spirit, but would argue that Jesus the God-man was flesh during his time on earth. I think there is just one group that used to claim them to be residents of Alcyone in Pleiades, and we know who they are! LOL
Frankiespeakin - It always boils down to interpretation, doesn't it?...
TYA
Lets face it most christians when they read the bible funnel it through what they have been taught by the religion or religions they choose to be in. Since there are so many variations of the same theme when it comes to christianity we all read it with those slants.
For instance when we read in Genesis about god creating the earth we automatically think of a earthly globe flying out in space orbiting the sun but in actuality when those words were written the writer just meant dry land not an earthly ball. Most christians believe and are taught this and not what the original writer meant.
bttt
TenYears,
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Truth. We may not know what truth is, but we know what it isn't. There is something in your own conscience that resonates and confirms when you "know" something is true. I think thats what it means when it says the Holy Spirit bears witness. This awareness, or Holy Spirit, confirms for you what you know is truth or a lie.
To grieve the Holy Spirit is to ignore the truth and go along with something deceitful or lying, purposely.
This is why so many struggle with conscience by staying in the org "for family" when they know it is all a lie. It prevents them from being true to themselves. However, some have been able to resolve it because they are stalling for time or making subtle influences in order to rescue their loved ones. They feel they must stay in ( even against their conscience) in order to eventually reach their loved ones.
It seems some are destroyed in the process of holding on. Sometimes their loved ones will never change. Grieving the Holy Spirit slowly destroys your soul.
Cameo,
Thanks for the comment...interesting. I wasn't really thinking along the more ethereal route you mention, but I think what you say has alot of truth in it. I am finding it quite enlightening how many different viewpoints on this subject are being expressed. I guess I am a bit of a linear thinker and tend to see subjects as either one way or the other. Thanks for your different look at the subject...
TYA
tenyearsafter-
If you have the opportunity take some classes on historical Judaism and how they used and understood their own terms such as Bat Kol, Ruach Ha-Kodesh, Shechinah, the Dove.
For comparative study see how the Apostles Peter and James Jewish Christianity differ from Pauline Christianity and how Jewish Christians such as the Ebionites and Noztrim differed from Gentiles who were influenced and patterned themselves after Ptolemy I, 300BC, who mixed Greek and Egyptian worship together in the Serapeum Temple in Alexandria.
