And Jesus Will Answer, "I Know You Not!"

by cameo-d 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

cameo-d

Matthew 7:
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9EDSKrC8bg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDz9_5me74&feature=related
I have heard many x-dubs say that other religions are "better" because they participate in works of charity. I think many are still being deceived when they believe this. They are being misled because the 'charity' is used as a distraction for what is really going on. And what is going on is that people are still being lied to, being fleeced, abused, coerced, punished for independent thinking, dominated and put out of these churches for non adherence to doctrine, and more.
KidKool

I agree on one level that there are other religions that are just as controlling and manipulative as the JW's. However, as an ex-jw, I will say that my radar works pretty well on detecting them and just wouldn't join them.

Most charitable organizations have board members and employees that are earning a living or better off of the charity, so every person should investigate before they give their money to someone else. In other words, some charities are using a greater percentage of their contiributions for true charity than others. So as an ex-JW I use my own judgment in who I contribute to. And would never make a blanket statement that other religions are better just because they "give to charity"

On the other hand I think its a shame that the JW organization doesn't even make a real attempt to make this world a better place through charitable works.
glenster

"I have heard many x-dubs say that other religions are "better" because they
participate in works of charity. I think many are still being deceived when they
believe this."
True--that's way too short a list. A better representation is at the next
link.
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/index.html
It's hard to make a defense of the JWs leaders' stance against the Golden Rule
and helping those beyond your own sound good, so I won't try.
Many believers and non-believers disagree with the Roman Catholic church
regarding homosexuality, including some churches, but the JWs leaders aren't
among them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality
I'm not Catholic, but I think the Catholics on the panel could have used
a few points about being a force for good for balance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_civilization
There are other things to explain a better balance for than that you could be
a JWs leaders follower instead, such as to do the same as all kinds of nice
believers and non-believers (there's even dissent and are different branches
among Catholics), but right now I'm going to bed.
garyneal

Yeah, good and bad in all religions and all philosophies. Funny how the descriptions of the individual catholics in relation to the clergy as described by the third speaker parallels the relation between the watchtower governing body and the rank and file witnesses. Set of dogmas all Catholics must beleive though they may wrestle with them on their own. All Catholics are not permitted to think, etc.. Reminds me of the WT Comments video where an excerpt of what the WT said about Irish Catholics now applies to the witnesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztQBKmIFqcc
I'm also a SciFi buff and one of my favorite series is Star Trek Voyager. In the series, there was two episodes concerning an Irish community called 'Fair Haven.' These people were definitely Irish Catholics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzriF0eHgZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJtwpBgXPlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS-ZWuuPXg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U08XWBHkUdY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdGukYClXvE
"Religion is a snare and a racket!"
Koiné

Hallo,
Please read this statement about Jehovah's witnesses view on doing the lords will (and on charity ) and give some comments.
Thanks.


LLC February 5, 2001
Inquiry into the Definition of
Charities and Related Organisations
C/- The Treasury
Parkes Place
PARKES ACT 2600
Dear Sir/Madam:

Re: Submission to Inquiry into the Definition of Charities and Related Organisations

Please find enclosed three copies of a brief submission in response to the Inquiry into the Definition of Charities and Related Organisations by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia.
We apologise for the lateness in providing you with this document which came about as a result of key members of our staff being overseas during most of January.
Thank you for providing us with the opportunity to make this submission.
Yours faithfully,
WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF AUSTRALIA

W. M. Lloyd
Vice-President
Encls.
Vincent Toole email: [email protected]
INQUIRY INTO THE DEFINITION OF CHARITIES AND RELATED ORGANISATIONS
A Submission by
the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia
on behalf of
Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia
February, 2001
Table of Contents
Who Are Jehovah’s Witnesses? ........................................................................................ 4
The Public Ministry ....................................................................................................... 4
The Internal Ministry .................................................................................................... 4
Disaster Relief and Church Construction Program ....................................................... 5
Funding the Society’s Activities ................................................................................... 5
The Purposes and Practice of Christian Religion and “Charity” Are Inseparable ............ 5
Overseas Definitions of Charity ....................................................................................... 7
Issues Regarding Definitions Used in Australia Compared to Other Countries .............. 8
Conclusion ........................................................................................................................ 8

Who Are Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Jehovah’s Witnesses are individual Christians who worship Jehovah, the supreme God of the universe and the Creator of it. ¾ Isaiah 43:10, 12; Psalm 83:18.
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia (the “Society”) is a not-for-profit religious organization registered under the New South Wales Companies Act 1961 as a company limited by guarantee. It is the legally registered body that acts on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia. The objects of the Society are set out in the attached Articles and Memorandum of Association.
The primary attributes of the Witnesses and the Society are religious, charitable, educational, and community service oriented. Their activities are based on a love for God and their fellowman and can be divided into two main areas, the public ministry and the internal ministry.
The Public Ministry
The public ministry includes home visitation in the community. The Society produces Bible-based printed material for distribution without charge. These publications include magazines, pamphlets, tracts, and books containing religious and moral discussion based on Bible principles which are designed to uplift mankind. They incorporate up-to-date medical, scientific, social, and educational information that addresses real-life problems. Bible studies are conducted on a regular basis with those in the community who desire to get to understand the Bible and how the principles it contains can assist them in various areas of life, such as within the family. In this way, comfort and hope is provided to many in the community who are suffering distress or pressure. Help is also given to those wanting assistance in areas involving Christian ethics, such as maintaining honest conduct, strengthening marriage bonds and rearing children. Other persons may desire help to stop smoking, abusing drugs, or engaging in physical violence or to improve their moral and, at times, physical cleanness.
The Internal Ministry
The internal ministry involves assistance, training, education, and teaching provided to members of the various congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses by the Society and those it appoints as ministers and elders. This ministry includes regular Bible study and training for the public ministry through educational meetings which form part of the Witnesses’ program of worship; a school for those associating with the congregation to improve their reading, comprehension, and public speaking abilities; and schools for ministers of the congregation and for missionaries. It includes a “shepherding” program to assist those in the congregation who are suffering in any way from illness, unemployment, family problems, or various day-to-day problems which are a part of modern society. In addition, the Society has established a hospital liaison network service to support those who want to avoid blood transfusions by providing the most up-to-date medical information published from around the world to medical practitioners who are willing to accept such assistance in treating Jehovah’s Witnesses. This service has also assisted hospitals in learning about and adopting new and safer treatments that avoid or minimize the well-recognized dangers associated with blood transfusion therapy. In doing so, it has aided the medical profession to be of greater assistance to the general community.
Disaster Relief and Church Construction Program
Supporting the public and internal ministries is the Disaster Relief Fund and the church construction program, both of which are administered by the Society. Contributions received for disaster relief are used in times of major crises including cyclones, floods, fires, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. No public subscriptions are invited for this fund. Individuals willingly support this work of benevolence with no desire for recognition or reward. (Matthew 6:3) The church construction program is also financed by voluntary contributions of money, materials, and labour, with specialized teams of tradesmen devoting their personal time and resources on a volunteer basis to build or renovate Kingdom Halls (churches) for congregations in need.
Funding the Society’s Activities
Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Society do not carry on any commercial activities to raise funds or obtain support for any of their charitable activities. They rely solely on voluntary contributions which are, for the most part, made by members of the congregations. They believe that they ‘must love their neighbour as themselves’ and therefore have a moral and Scriptural obligation to help their fellowman.
Donations to the Society are not tax-deductible, even when they are made for disaster relief or church building. We believe that more funds would be available if donations of reasonably large amounts “for the advancement of religion” were tax-deductible.
The Purposes and Practice of Christian Religion and “Charity” Are Inseparable
Real charity is both the “purpose” and the “nature” of the activities carried out by a Christian religion if it follows the example of Christ set forth in the Bible. Perhaps the best known Scriptural principle related to charity is recorded at 1 Corinthians 13:13:
“And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”—King James Version.
This statement was made by an apostle to the early Christian church. However, in modern times, the word “charity” has assumed a related, but more limited, meaning. The Collins English Dictionary, Fourth Australian Edition, defines “charity” as—
“1a the giving of help, money, food, etc., to those in need.… 5 love of one’s fellow men.… from Latin caritas affection, love …”
It is this first definition that is given emphasis today. So charity is usually associated with giving the “poor and needy” support in various forms such as money, food, clothing, or medical aid. It is in this limited sense, then, that “charity” can be separated from the Christian religion or can be isolated within the activities of a church. The fifth meaning given by Collins Dictionary is the meaning behind the Bible verse quoted above, for the word “charity” in that verse is translated from one of the Greek words for love, “agape.” [1] In fact, many modern translations render this Bible verse as follows:
“In a word, there are three things that last forever: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of them all is love.” ¾ The New English Bible . [2]
The meaning of the word “agape” extends beyond the love shown to family, friends, or marriage mate. According to James Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (1890, pp. 75, 76), agape—
“ ¼ is wider, embracing espec. the judgment and the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety ¼ .”
Therefore, the “charity” of the Christian religion includes, but extends beyond, giving to the poor and needy by means of the provision of money, clothing, food, medical attention, and other material help. It encompasses a general compassion for other people, including a stranger and even an enemy. (Luke 6:27-29) This compassion prompts deliberate acts of goodwill on the part of a Christian toward another. It may, or may not, include assistance to the poor and needy by means of gifts of material possessions, but it is exercised for the good of the other person or a community of persons. It can include providing encouragement, advice, and counsel, giving hope, or showing kindness. For example, a depressed person is often better aided by words of encouragement than by a material gift, and a person in financial difficulties could be more lastingly assisted by guidance in managing their financial affairs than they would be by a temporary boost to their bank account. The person or organization who provides that guidance out of a sense of Christian love is no less a sharer in the chain of charitable actions than the one who freely gives a monetary gift.
It is impossible in these circumstances to divide charitable works from the true practice of religion. [3] An organization established for “the advancement of religion” is, in and of itself, giving both to the individual and to the community. If the church’s primary purpose is to uplift the morals of individuals comprising a community; if it teaches and promotes higher standards; if it assists couples to improve marital relationships; if it helps youths and others to have a purpose in life, to act responsibly, to pay their debts, to live morally, to avoid drugs, to resist smoking, to stop stealing, to avoid lying; and if it teaches people to be peaceable, then surely these charitable purposes and actions directed at preventing the problem rather than at the results of the problem are of great benefit to the community.
The charitable activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses in this regard have been recognized by various authorities in different parts of the world. For example, A.I. Antonov, head of the Department of Family Sociology at the Lomonosov Moscow State University, and three other scholars wrote in their expert opinion submitted to the Golovinsky court:
“The literature of the religious association of Jehovah’s Witnesses encourages its readers to strengthen family unity, highly value marriage, family, children, paternity and maternity, accept one’s mutual responsibility as parents, children, and all family members.”—Conclusion on the Results of a Research of Publications of Religious Association of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Institute of Religion and Law, Moscow, March 1998.
A survey of 126,966 people, conducted in Germany, found that 80 percent of those surveyed felt that their family life had improved because of applying the Bible-based teachings found in the publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses. [4] In addition, an independent survey conducted in France in 1998 found that “98 percent of Jehovah’s Witnesses consider that their faith has led them to a rather harmonious life and to the respect of laws.” [5]
Overseas Definitions of Charity
In harmony with what is set out in the Issues Paper concerning the definition of charity, Lord Macnaghten, in Commissioner for Special Purposes of Income Tax v Pemsel [1891] AC 531, identified the four classes of charity as: (1) the relief of poverty; (2) the advancement of education; (3) the advancement of religion; and (4) other purposes beneficial to the community. The use of the term “other” assumes that “education” and “religion” are beneficial to the community. In general terms, Lord Macnaghten’s four-class characterization of activities considered charitable has been adopted throughout the common law world.
As the Issues Paper also mentions, a charity must provide some public benefit. The publications of the British Charity Commission define “public benefit” as “for the benefit of the community (or a significant section of it).” At paragraph 30 of CC21 Starting and Registering a Charity, the commission states: “There is a general assumption that the advancement of religion is for the public benefit.” [6]
Section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal RevenueCode,in addition to the relief of poverty and the advancement of religion, education, or science, includes in its definition of “charity” for tax-exempt status the erection or maintenance of public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burden of government; lessening of neighbourhood tensions; elimination of prejudice and discrimination; defence of human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.
Issues Regarding Definitions Used in Australia Compared to Other Countries
The Society is not an international organization having branches in other countries. However, Jehovah’s Witnesses are worldwide, and a different not-for-profit organization is registered in each country. The structures of these corporations vary according to the laws applying in each country. In some countries, such as the United States of America and New Zealand, donors to our religious organizations are exempt from gift duty and may claim tax deductions for donations made to the church.
In some countries, we are limited by the fact that funds received cannot be distributed to another country, thus preventing an international support arrangement. Although this has, at times, proven to be inconvenient, it has not unduly hampered our work.
Conclusion
It is our submission that the common law definition of charity should be retained in Australia just as it has been in most common law jurisdictions.

[1] See Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, which gives the primary meaning of “charity” as “Christian love ¼ love of fellow men.”

[2] See also the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

[3] Except where the benefit has no public element such as the establishment of a closed order whose members are not involved with the community.

[4] The Watchtower, July 1, 1998, p.4.

[5] Survey conducted by SOFRES, ref. MHI-MNV 98-204, October 1998, p.9.

[6] For additional information see web site: www.charity-commission.gov.uk/cc2l.htm
cameo-d

Koine,
You just posted all that on another thread you started 2 days ago.
Seems that you could have learned from your mistake and cleaned up the codes if you were going to post it twice.
It would have been simplier if you had just linked to your thread like this:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/184439/1/Charity-what-is-the-correct-biblical-or-christian-view.
I hope people will take a look at Teel's comment which was posted on that thread. I think it's a pretty accurate summation of WT view of charity.
AgentSmith

I am with KidKool on this one. The 'scales' have come off and besides seeing the truth about the "TRUTH", my BS detector is now super sensitive.
As President Bush so wisely said(paraphrasing). " Fool me once, shame on me, Fool me twice, (Pause) You can't fool me again!"
Agent Smith
PSacramento

Its not the WORKS we do but the intent behind them.
People that do works of kindeness with ulterior motives ( salvation for example) are not kidding anyone, God knows our hearts and he knows why we do what we do, the good and the bad.
Jesus's speach was aimed at those that did only acts of kidness to their "brothers" as opposed to doing it for all.
Hence the use of "when did we do this to you lord" or "when did we NOT do this to you Lord".
glenster

Another issue on the show was contraception and sex outside marraige.
Wouldn't the JWs leaders, with those stances along with relatively harsh shun-
ning rules, be stricter than the Roman Catholic leaders?
In my article, I explain my basic outlooks on the 1st and last page. I like
the JWs I met. The focus of my criticism is on the insincerity of the leaders'
claims about themselves and their faith--esp. if if anyone is hurt or killed.
http://glenster1.webs.com/gtjbrooklyn1.htm
Another thing that causes those problems, the biggest cause, is people getting
so 'centric about whatever classification (belief or non-belief, race, national-
ity, etc.) that they're not fair or friendly with others. See the list of some
of the believers AND non-believers on the offense causing hurt or death on p.43
at the next link.
http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklyn43.htm
If you're going to brand whole classifications of people as bad (forces in the
world), but with an ironically fair hand, you better be prepared to look at your
own race, nationalities of your ancestors, believers OR non-believers, etc.--
would you want to be branded as bad as the worst examples in history we'd find
of all of them? Would you want to be put on the defense and demanded apology as
though responsible for the worst of them? Nobody could get past that unscathed
because common human selfishness is unfortunately appropriately named, but that
seems to be the ham-handed broadside swing of some of the accusers on the show--
ironically, the kind of characterization of a different group than one's own
that's behind the most problems.
When it comes to belief or non-belief outlooks, I think neither should be the
law of the land or you get people hurt or killed over something I don't think
anyone should be hurt or killed over, so I go for separation of church and state.
If I were to criticise certain Catholic leaders of the past, where it took a
wrong turn from the New Testament, that would be one of the 1st things I'd think
about. A problem with laying that on current Catholics is central to Christian-
ity--James: show me your faith by your works. If those leaders did bad, they
weren't of the faith, and any other of the faith isn't characterized by them.
RubaDub

This is true, you never know who you are going to run into.
That is why it is wise to always carry two forms of ID on your person at all times.
Rub a Dub

And Jesus Will Answer, "I Know You Not!"

Who Are Jehovah’s Witnesses?

The Public Ministry

The Internal Ministry

Disaster Relief and Church Construction Program

Funding the Society’s Activities

The Purposes and Practice of Christian Religion and “Charity” Are Inseparable

Overseas Definitions of Charity

Issues Regarding Definitions Used in Australia Compared to Other Countries

Conclusion

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