Is the partakers numbers out yet...

by 1914BS 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  yadda yadda 2

  Reporting the numbers of the partakers is almost a sacrosanct tradition in the organisation that appears to dramatically emphasize their 'little flock' and 'great crowd' concepts. The Society has always taken immense pride in highlighting how the 'great crowd' keeps getting bigger while the 'little flock' of the remnant keeps dwindling (or at least remains static). It will be very hard for them to stop reporting the numbers without a really convincing reason because they have stated that the decrease in the number of the remnant is a sure proof we are deep in the last days.

  The Watchtower is genuinely nervous about the numbers continuing to rise and are quietly hoping the last few years have been aberrations. There was nearly a 10% increase last year; if this happens again this year they will be squirming. If the trend continues they will be forced into bringing out 'new light' on the subject soon.
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  teel

  remember, the "calling" ended in 1935. Do the math and calculate how old the "anointed" class was. How long before the average dub started to question the integrity of the 1935 generation, just as happened with the 1914 generation?

  You're stumbling me civicsi You're talking about old light. The average dubs questioned the integrity of '35 for a while, that's why (and because it just wasn't feasible) they changed that one. Now the official teaching is "we can't set a date as to when the calling of the annointed ends". See w07 5/1 "Questions from readers". This was the major reason why 2008 saw a 10% increase in the annointed number - the '35 teaching was a psychological stop sign; one thinking about his status thought that in order for him to be annointed, it means that someone of the annointed class fell from Jah's grace, which a devoted JW doesn't think of as likely. I am sure the number rose again in 2009, and is over 10k.
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  peacedog

  You're talking about old light

  teel,

  Yes I was referring to old light. ;) The door was opened a couple years ago. But I stand by everything that I said. As you said, "the official teaching is 'we can't set a date as to when the calling of the anointed ends'". Exactly. And this new light™ affords the WT$ the opportunity to publish a HIGHER number, which is what they needed to do in order to get out from under the time limit imposed by the 1935 generation.

  Perhaps you are right that a psychological stop sign was removed leading to more partakers. It's very likely. However, this doesn't change the fact that the Society needed to break free from the 1935 generation in order to move forward with their core doctrines in tact. It also doesn't mean that the Society is publishing legitimate numbers. Perhaps the actual number of partakers did rise, perhaps not. Neither case will stop the WT$ from publishing whatever number of partakers they want.

  Once the rank and file dubs come to terms with the fact that there are now "young" anointed,™ count on seeing a slowly decreasing number of partakers once again.
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  teel

  First, an apology for confusing peacedog with civicsi00.

  You may have a point peacedog, but I do not believe the Society would outright lie. It's only my personal view, nothing to base it on. Misinterpret the truth, deceive, etc. yes, but I believe the GB tries to rationalize everything for themselves too. So I don't see them plainly making up a number to publish - although obviously they can do that, no way for us to check.

  Also the fact that the number was so unstable before 08, sometimes rising sometimes dropping seems to be against that idea too. They said numberous times that the decrease of the number of annointed shows us that we are getting closer to the big A. If they were making up numbers, surely they would have done a better job, wouldn't they? I mean ok, rise a bit a couple of times to keep the number looking genuine, but overall to have a steady decline.

  The 144k taken literaly is also a big problem for them to start artificially rising the number. There is only so far they can go before more people start wondering how these two things can be reconciled.
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  leavingwt

  but I do not believe the Society would outright lie

  Dude. Take off the blinders. For starters, read some of Barbara's Anderson's remarks.

  They will lie through their teeth in a heartbeat. They'll call if "Theocratic Warfare" if necessary.

  I don't know if they will lie about the "number of partakers", but they will (and have) lied about many other things.
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  undercover

  They will lie throught their teeth in a heartbeat.

  I agree...but what I've never figured out is why they ever published the actual number of the partakers when it was obvious that something was wrong. Why not just make up some numbers that jived with the population of 1935 dying off?

  Did they really think no one was paying attention? Did they really think no one would ever notice that the population of 1935 was shrinking while the numbers of the (partaking) anointed weren't?

  They could have saved themselves some trouble...and kept the imminence of the end foremost in everyone's mind...by faking the numbers, lettting them shrink each year, if only enough to keep the doubters quiet.

  Dropping the 1935 date was their answer, but that only shows that once again, any date they pick as important ends up being cast aside eventually.
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  teel

  I know about theocratic warfare. It's mostly based on deception. I know they have said some things which were plainly false, however I still think they have rationalized it within themselves as being the correct thing to say at that particular situation. Mind you I don't want to defend the org at all. I find such tactics much worse than lies. As I explained in an other thread outright lies at least are discoverable, these deception tactics are harder to pinpoint.
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  peacedog

  Hi teel, no apology is necessary.

  You said: "I do not believe the Society would outright lie"

  No disrespect, but like leavingwt said, "Dude. Take off the blinders."

  Seriously, they have outright lied many, many times. In fact it's their outright lies more than anything that convinces me they are not and can not be the true religion.

  Regarding the number of partakers prior to the recent new light, I think initially the GB was not prepared to abandon 1935. Cults are all about control, and with 1935 they had control over the anointed. They still needed some "buffer" of anointed to allow for a steady decline, so the number was artificially inflated and declined at a rate not consistent with the death rate. This is just my opinion and not material to my position on the current situation.

  Anyway, the 1935 cutoff eventually became a serious problem for the WT$. Think about it. A 20 year old in 1935 turned 90 in 2005. The WT$ was facing the prospect of no more anointed, and by extension, no more faithful and discreet slave. An increase in partakers was absolutely essential for the continuance of the WT religion as we know it. And amazingly, the number of partakers started to rise just in time! The rise in partakers was *followed* by new light regarding the dropping of 1935 and the door being opened.

  You said: "The 144k taken literaly is also a big problem for them to start artificially rising the number"

  I agree. Although the 144k being literal has always been problematic and yet hasn't been an issue for the rank and file thus far. To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the 144k was switched to a symbolic number at some point. Assuming the religion survives, it might become "necessary" based on the math alone. But for now they'll deal with the problem by not inflating the number too much. Just enough to buy several more decades for the faithful and discreet slave.

  peace
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  The Almighty Homer

  You can safely assume that they will never again mention that the decreasing numbers of the partaking anointed class signifies that the end of this system of things.

  Dropping that out their professed doctrines will be a necessary must. Not really a big deal since they have a bunch of other tell tale time of the signs to manipulate

  and exploit from.

  The WTS. stacks the bullshit as high as their buildings.
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  blondie

  I wish the WTS would do that but I think although the number of anointed has gone up, this year in a study article the WTS said it had gone down. My stuff is at home but does someone remember that?