Fade rapidly OR jeopardise the fade by helping family/friends learn the truth and remain part of our lives?

by LUKEWARM 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • inbetween

    well, its a tough question. Personally I could just get up and run, but it would kill my family, I have to take it slow.

    I always think back, how I was a year ago, though having doubts in some teachings or practices, I did not question the WTS as being Gods organization.

    I may try to slowly expose hypocrisy, and Pharisaic behaviour among the Borg.

    Sooner or later I may have to stepp down from my privileges, but not yet, not yet. I may use my influence carefully to help others...hopefully no crossroads for my conscience comes too soon...

    We have some great and sincere Witnesses among our congo, as well as some competitive overzealous selfrighteous ones...

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    We tried to fade over two years ago. My wifes has JW family, I do not. It turned out that her mother simply would not let her fade away. She got turned into the elders for joining the YMCA. This eventually led to me DA myself and my wife getting DF'd.

    Two years have passed. Both me and my wife had hoped that the misery that has resulted because of the WTS garbage would serve as a wake up call. We're still waiting. We just went through some stuff with her JW family a few weeks ago and they still are determined as ever to protect the WTS and defend the religion.

    After a great deal of dissapointment, my wife has come to believe that there really is nothing you can do for them. They have to be willing to make the first step. Try and help them and all you will end up doing is driving yourself crazy.

    Your situation may be different, but from what I have read on this board, you best think long and hard before you start trying to show people 'the real truth'. It can end up in a one way ticket to crazy town.


    Son of Man -I think you have misunderstood me - I am open about my beliefs and my purpose for not rapidly fading is to give people I care about the opportunity to gain understanding of the alternative arguments so they can make up their own mind about the future. If they choose WTS that is ok because their decision will be an informed one and I will feel that my duty of care has been discharged...

    Freddo -
    Sorry to hear you wife is not on the same page...it makes the whole experience so much harder. You are right that "placing" CoC can be a dangerous manoeuvre but in my experience you can only do so with close friends who have been softened up over time. Seeking commitment from them to want to read it is the crucial part...I told one of my friends openly that I stumbled across CoC by accident and that my curiosity got the better of me. Then I told him that the reason I am so honest about the matter is that if the situation was reversed, I would appreciate and expect him to tell me about his discoveries so I could then make up my own mind about the material...

    no more cool aid -Agree, each situation is different and I am not doing this with all our friends. Some are die hards that are not willing to do anything but parrot the WTS line. With these its too dangerous to proceed. Other friends are willing to reason on points and so are not beyond recovery - it's the approach and how they perceive it that creates the opportunities. Slowly opening their mind to thinking for themselves, questioning and allowing them to reach their own conclusions whilst we are still following the JW routine does not create the barrier and information can be exchanged...

    AwSnap -
    Introducing "Crisis of Conscience" is one of the last things one should do and not with everybody - I encourage them to question everything and find information themselves online (UN issue, blood etc). I have introduced other material (letters from brothers to the society). Only when they are willing to do this or read the links and discuss does "Crisis of Conscience get introduced...

    Black Sheep -
    I agree with you 100%! Not sure I have the staying power to be the last one switching off the lights...

    Mickey mouse -Well done with hubby and best wishes with your friend. As you mention, time is the issue and the lack of motivation to be on the worthless JW treadmill of works...

    MissingLink -
    Thank you for the advice - Patience is a must as they can only take small doses of this stuff but I want them in my life after we move on from the JW religion...

    Cantleave -
    I feel for you as I am in a similar situation. Trying to find the balance between fading and rescuing others...As much as I do not want to jeopardise our fade I cannot leave all these people behind without helping them. Please don't give up on your family and friends - reason with them from the Bible, slowly introduce information - if they ever get out they will have so much to thank you for!!

    Observador -
    A good point you make - we are eager to share our learning's and often convey information too quickly which has the propensity to backfire. Taking things slowly is the key - but there are no guarantees. Hope you can get to your family somehow...

    Inbetween -
    You are playing this smart - playing by the WTS rules, and using these "privileges" to your advantage in influencing and helping others. Let the self-righteous ones slave away for the publishing corporation - focus you energy on family and friends who you want in your life after the shunning commences...

    drew sagan -
    Sorry to hear of your wife's disappointing experience - although my in-laws have been receptive, my side of the family remains quite commited to the religion. Also, you make a valid point - there are no second chances and it can backfire at any time. I have thought out plan B if somebody decides to go to the elders...

  • dozy

    Initially when I confirmed to myself that the "truth" was riddled with errors , I rather naively discussed some of the issues with (formerly) close family & friends , assuming that I could have an open & honest dialogue with them. However I very quickly realised that even those who I assumed were intelligent , open minded individuals were so entangled in the truth that it was impossible to have any kind of meaningful discussion. One "friend" even reported me to the elders & tried to initiate DF procedures.

    Sooner or later (probably sooner) you will be betrayed and disfellowshipped. If you are able to accept that certainty then by all means speak to others. My own experience (and that of many others) has been that it is impossible to convince others - they will have to make that voyage of discovery themselves.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I agree with Missing Link on setting a deadline if you attempt this. There are success stories and failure stories on both sides of this issue.
    It is a personal decision wrought with misgiving either way. You either think you could have done better at helping or you think you wasted so much time more in helping. So if a person is up to the challenge, it's their time and life. If they need to look out for themself, it's not their responsibility to "wait." And sometimes, getting out of Dodge is what the members need to see. Some surprise might make truly concerned people look into the matter.

    As a quick fader, I will say this. Being a free-spirited JW, getting family to the point of being considered weak JW's: that would be good. But staying at such a point is really not a whole lot better than them being staunch JW's. If an attempt stalls at that point, I would recommend just finishing the fade and seeing how a person could help from the totally inactive side for the rest of the attempt.

    I also point out that, if children are involved, my opinion is to get the hell out much faster for their sakes. Why should they be getting more and more cult indoctrination while a parent is playing the game to help other adults? Children deserve to know right away that there is nothing wrong with wanting to do "worldly" things like skip church, eat birthday cake, have fun at sports, go to college, etc.. I would recommend less than a year for a deadline when children are involved. I suppose an exception could be made if they are able to handle the parent confiding in them that it isn't "the truth" and we need to help Mom/Dad/Grandma or whoever out of it.

    Friends- it is my thought that friends can only be helped if they are ready to be helped. Set a short deadline, then expect to lose their friendship. Sad, but it is the norm. Staying behind for their sake more than a few months is really hurting yourself.

    Those that come to a realization about the religion typically cannot do any of this. They need to fade, walk away, resign, or be kicked out. This is only for the few that are ready for such a tough assignment. No shame in either course.

  • Albert Einstein
    Albert Einstein

    also point out that, if children are involved, my opinion is to get the hell out much faster for their sakes

    OTWO - very true...

    I was for several years "one foot in and one foot out", but when I saw my son (at age 5-6) starting to make fanatical "cult like" statements "Jehovah doesnt like that... Jehovah is the only true god" I realized I must act and started my familys departure: I explained to my son what cults are, explained what GB is, explained who Rutherford was, explained daddy and mummie believe different things but its OK, ... He was confused for some time, went to mummie to tell her... there was some tension for some time, but now my son is mentally out and I succesfully work on my wife.

    When it comes to kids there is not time to wait, cults are great danger to them, since they trust everything parents say (until certain age...).


  • leavingwt

    What is the best way to help them or should we be content at no longer being subject to the tentacles of the WTS?

    Have you read either (or both) of Steve Hassan's books?

  • tjlibre

    Hello LUKEWARM,

    I’m basically in the same situation that you are in. I was appointed as an elder not too long ago, ironically only months after I finished reading R.Franz’s CoC. I feel that I can deal with the citation for a bit longer. As an “elder” I now have access to “inside” info such as the letters from the GB and other stuff, I want to build credibility in my wife’s eyes so than when I let her know that I’m done with this “Org” she’ll at least feel that I have a good reason. In the mean time, I’m helping some irregulars to feel less guilty about not turning in a field service report, letting the young ones know that its OK to educate themselves and pursue a career, also advising the new “bible” students that before they make a decision to look into the “society’s” history so that they are aware that this is an imperfect organization. For what is worth, spreading the seed is better than just leaving, help those that can be help…others are better off left in the cult as Randy W wrote in one of his blogs.


    dozy -These conversations and "softening" I refer to have been going on for almost 12 months. Agree with you that it is impossible to convince others - they will have to make that voyage of discovery themselves - and this is where I feel I can assist to provide info that I found interesting. I'm hoping I can help to accelerate their curiosity/willingness to start their own investigations...

    OTWO -Wasting time is not as important for me as getting our family/friends out. We do the barest possible but nevertheless I'm not up to doing this for a prolonged period of time. You are spot on that friends can only be helped if they are ready to be helped. I feel that the conversations and the admissions received from friends/family thus far and the material exchanged suggest to me that they are not blind fools and they certainly do not agree with the WTS in all matters. We joke about how dumbed down the publications are, how repetitive the meetings are, how useless the field ministry is etc. They have read information I have presented and comment about it openly. I feel they are ready for information but can only take things in small doses. All the negatives have not stacked up yet for them to view the organization as useless...

    Albert Enstein -
    You are right regarding any children - it would be difficult and unfair on them to continue with the deception.

    leavingwt -Yes, red them both only a few weeks ago and picked up some valuable tips for getting people to think for themselves...

    tjlibre -
    Welcome to the board. Good to hear you are using your position as elder to influence positive outcomes and help others. Hope you can help your wife first and then the both of you may be able to help others see the truth. Agree with you that spreading the seed is better than just leaving and that we should try and help those that can really be helped. In order to do this, black sheep said (above) that we need to be the last ones out - not sure I have the staying power! "Crisis of Conscience" and Rays second book "In Search of Christian Freedom" were a real eye opener for me and set me free mentally.

  • OnTheWayOut

    Oh, and the prolonged fade with revealing information to family and friends also jeopardizes the result of the fade.

    An example: My mother said she would have to stop speaking to me if I were DA or DF'ed. A quick fade allows me to be myself (granted, carefully) at home and I continue to speak to my mother. Staying in, trying to help someone, I could trigger their cult guilt and they turn me in, risking that freedom my mother thinks she has to speak to me.

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