Why weren't the rebellious angels destroyed?

by jabberwock 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    LockedChaos has got it right in my humble opinion.

    And Jabberwock raised a great question!

    It's great because the question itself forces the mind to consider the absurdity of the way events unfolded in the genesis "account". It makes no sense that GOD would get pissed at humanity and then kill everyone (except for 8 righteous souls and those lucky pairs and septets of beasts) for their misbehaviour, while at the same time he would give the wickid angels a free pass. Weren't they the instigators of all the violence and troubles - producing monster-like offspring who were violent and godless? It makes no sense at all, that the kids of the angels would get killed and the fathers would escape unharmed. It doesn't jive with the rest of the bible's message of parents being accountable for their kids either - does it?

    Of course one can rationalize the absurd, and you can force your brain to make it seem logical... kind of.

    But when you honestly evaluate it with your own good common sense you have to admit that the Genesis story is just plain silly.

    The Oracle

  • ldrnomo
    ldrnomo

    Because that's the way it is in the script

    LD

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    I took a similar line in a post some time back " Is jehovah a just God"??? Satan and his angels have got away scot free for rebelling against the "Almighty"( never mind saying their judgement is coming in the future ) what pain or suffering have they experienced since their rebellion?? compared to what humankind have experienced these past 6000 years ???!!Bugger all.Satan,or his demons , weren`t even cast out of heaven,Jehovah`s realm as indicated in Job,until 1914 according to jw`s interpretation.So the scales of justice are heavily weighed in favour of the likes of Satan and his demons.

    smiddy

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    And if I can add another slant on this thread what`s the deal about the suffering of land animals and sea creatures who had no say at all in what "intelligent" humans decided to do in ignoring Gods warning???. Animals and sea creatures have devoured each other since time began ,not to mention the sickness and disease they have suffered these past centuries for no fault of their own. All living creatures down here on earth seem to be punished except the perpetrators of the crime.

    smiddy

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    jabberwock....The rebellious angels did not escape the wrath of God according to the references to them in Jude and 2 Peter; there the angels are described as bound in the dense darkness (= Tartarus) where they await Judgment Day (Jude 6, 2 Peter 2:4). These statements are directly dependent on 1 Enoch (even utilizing the same phraseology and terms), a Jewish apocalypse written from the third century BC to the first century AD, so an understanding of the latter is critical to understanding the biblical references correctly. The Society errs considerably in identifying the demons with the fallen angels. Such an identification flatly contradicts Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4, as the fallen angels couldn't be roving around freely if they were long ago bound and imprisoned in the abyss. So the Society is forced to interpret these scriptures in a figurative sense, as describing a state of inactivity of the fallen angels, but this is nonsensical if the Society simultaneously wants to claim that the demons are busy doing the work of Satan on the earth. The notion that the fallen angels departed their "materialized" fleshly bodies during the Flood (thereby becoming demons) is a Watchtower extrapolation that does not reflect what first century AD Jews and Christians believed. The actual early Jewish and Christian belief was that the demons were not the fallen angels but their bastard Nephilim children who drowned in the Flood (on the drowning of the Nephilim, see 1 Enoch 89:6). The hybrid nature of the giants meant that their earthly bodies were mortal but their souls were immortal (inherited from the immortality of their angelic fathers). The identification of the giants with the demons is explicit here:

    1 Enoch 15:3, 6-11, 16:1: "Why have you abandoned the high heaven, the eternal sanctuary, and slept with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men, and taken for yourselves wives and done as the sons of earth, and begotten yourselves sons, giants? ... The proper abode of spirits of heaven is heaven, but now giants who were gotten by the spirits and flesh, they will call them evil spirits upon the earth, for their dwelling will be upon the earth. The spirits that have gone forth from the body of the flesh are evil spirits, for from humans they came into being, and from the holy watchers was the origin of their creation. Evil spirits they will be on the earth, and evil spirits they will be called. And the spirits of the giants lead astray, do violence, make desolate, and attack and wrestle and hurl upon the earth and cause illnesses. They eat nothing, but abstain from food and are thirsty and smite. These spirits will rise up against the sons of men and against the women, for they have come forth from them. From the day of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the soul whose flesh the spirits are proceeding, they are making desolate until the day of the consummation of the great judgment, when the great age will be consummated".

    This passage from the Book of Watchers was written in third century BC and is directly alluded to in Jude 6, which also alludes to 1 Enoch 10:4-12 which concerns the binding and casting of the fallen angels into the darkness beneath the earth where they will be held for seventy generations until "the day of their judgment and the consummation until eternal judgment is consummated". The Animal Apocalypse (second century BC) relates that the fallen angels were imprisoned prior to the Flood: "And I saw one of those four [archangels] who had come before; he seized that first star that had fallen from heaven, and he found it by his hands and feet and threw it into an abyss, and that abyss was narrow and deep and desolate and dark .... one of those four gathered and took all the great stars ... and bound them by their hands and feet and threw them into an abyss of the earth" (1 Enoch 89:1-3; compare Revelation 20:1-3). The book of Jubilees (second century BC) elaborates further on the Enochic myth of the origin of the demons. In a clear allusion to 1 Enoch 10, the author relates that prior to the Flood the fallen angels "were bound in the depths of the earth forever, until the day of great judgment in order for judgment to be executed upon all" (Jubilees 5:10; compare Jude 6 which says that the fallen angels are "kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day"). Then immediately after the Flood, the demons began to plague Noah and his children (7:26-28, 10:1-2), and Noah prays for them to be imprisoned with their parents. But their leader Mastema reaches an agreement with God to have one-tenth of them remain free to continue their activities unhindered (10:8-11), so while the majority are bound and cast down into the place of judgment, a small number are allowed to roam the earth, being subject to Satan. This same identification of the demons with the antediluvian giants was also a mainstay of early Christian thought (cf. Acts of Thomas 32, Justin Martyr, 2 Apology 5.2, Athenagorus, Plea 6.3.2, Minucius Felix, Octavian 26, Tertullian, De Idololatria 4, Lactantius, Divine Institutes 2.15, Commodianus, Instructiones 3, Pseudo-Clementines, Homily 8.10-20). And once we appreciate the actual conceptual background underlying the NT references to demons, a lot of things begin to make sense. In Matthew 12:43-45, demons are depicted as wandering the earth seeking new bodies to inhabit. Why do they do this? Because they originally had bodies but lost them when they drowned in the Flood. One may even appreciate the subtle irony in Matthew 8:31-32 in the story about the demons possessing the herd of swine, who then proceed to drown themselves in the sea. This story makes the demons, in effect, re-enact their own original demise, forcing themselves to become again bodiless in search of new hosts.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Leolaia: "One may even appreciate the subtle irony in Matthew 8:31-32 in the story about the demons possessing the herd of swine, who then proceed to drown themselves in the sea. This story makes the demons, in effect, re-enact their own original demise, forcing themselves to become again bodiless in search of new hosts."

    Did ALL of the swine drown? If not all demons drowned at time of flood, then perhaps not all swine drwoned at time of demon possession.

    In that case, some ancestors may still be around. Could be some demon-swine genetics in the flu vaccine, huh?

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    This generates the stock answer that the demons are testing out our integrity to Jehovah--which is nothing more than a scam. Why Jehovah would drag us against our will into His problems, if He really loved us--I don't believe Satan actually wanted this problem for us.

    On top of that, all the demons wanted was to be able to not have everything they did be what Jehovah told them to. The ones that remained content with just doing as Jehovah told them to are not making the best use of their mental abilities. Yet, Jehovah wants to punish those who fully used their mental abilities for doing so. And, He wants us to suffer at the same time--hence He drags us into His issues.

    For the record, I believe Satan only wanted the best for mankind. He saw that God was starting a tyranny--beginning with a little issue, and eventually it would have condemned us to live sterile existences totally devoid of any pleasure. Satan could look that far ahead, and did something to help us out of it. And, Jehovah debased Satan for it, while punishing us for wanting to be able to enjoy things. All this (and that is right from the Bible, in case any theists who believe God really loves us want to read the account at the beginning of Genesis) tells me that Jehovah is all-powerful and all-corrupt, while Satan was merely going above and beyond his call to duty in taking care of the human race.

  • Blue Grass
    Blue Grass

    Excellent post Leolaia. Apparently you're the only regular on this site that has any real knowledge of the Bible. I was getting ready to start a thread answering jabberwock's question but you answered it so well there's nothing left to add.

  • flipper
    flipper

    Because they just wanted to get laid. Jehovah understood. He's a compassionate God. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Genesis is not about a loving God. It's allegory to a mean SOB that tells humans "OBEY OR ELSE." He's such a mean SOB that the other lesser gods (morphed from mythology into the sons of God, morphed by later people into angels since they only had one god) tried to get around his rules. God didn't destroy them because He was flattered that they thought women (His creation) were ultra-fine. He knew they couldn't help themselves. He knew it would be like creating Man without knowledge of good and bad, tempting him with something that requires that knowledge, then holding Man responsible for failing the loyalty test.

    Volumes could be written on what Genesis really meant. OH, they have been written. Nevermind.

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