May you have peace! And may you find it in your heart to take the time read all that I have responded, as you gave me quite a lot to respond to. Thank you!
First, I must apologize for the appearance of my post, at least as it appears to me - I have NO idea what occurred, but am glad you were able to glean some of what I stated. Now, to address your concerns:
Sorry, I don't buy it.
That's absolutely okay. I didn't share this with you because I needed you to agree - you are most certainly entitled to disagree. But... I owe you the truth... and so I shared it because it IS the truth. Whether you hear… or refrain… is not an issue. But you won't be able to say NO ONE told you the truth on this matter. Someone did.
Nowhere does it say some invisible manifestation will continue while physical manifestation will cease.
I think that perhaps the way my post came out (at least, as I can see it) confused you. You are right in that nowhere does it say that… and neither did I. I did say that while some manifestations where physical, some were not (and I didn't say they were invisible - I said they are not actually manifest in and of themselves. For example, can you physically SEE wisdom? Can you physically SEE knowledge? No, but you can see the RESULTS… which ARE the manifest of such gifts. That is what I wrote).
Also, I NEVER said that EITHER would cease… either the gifts that are actually manifested physically OR those that are manifested by their results. The TRUTH is the NEITHER have ceased/been done away with… yet. That is because that which is "complete," Christ, has not arrived yet so that they, the PARTIAL, are done away with/ceased. Unfortunately, my post may not show this. I apologize again for its presentation - it did not look like that when I finished. I have NO idea what happened… and I didn't "save" it in Word so that I can post it again. ARRGHH!
I find a lot of people who think they speak in wisdom are full of themselves and no wisdom exists outside of their own self.
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. There are MANY who "trust in themselves" that they are righteous… or discreet… or wise/knowledgeable. Some call themselves "scholars." Some "pastor, reverend, Brother, Elder, Holy Father, etc." You are absolutely correct!
And at present partial gifts? Come on, what partial gifts do people have today?
All of those gifts given by the Spirit: speech of wisdom; speech of knowledge; faith; healing; power works (i.e., miracles); prophesying; discernment of inspired utterances (i.e., hearing spirits speak, which is one of my gifts and how I am able to share what I do here on the forum); different tongues; and interpretation of tongues (which is my other gift).
In each case, however, the gift is only partial. For example, one with the gift of healing can only do so partially - that is because the person healed is not COMPLETELY healed - he or she WILL die (unless the time of our Lord's return has arrived, which is another thread). One with the gift of speech of knowledge can only speak PARTIAL knowledge - he or she does not know EVERYTHING… but only SOME things, and those very well. For one with the gift of hearing spirits… such hearing is PARTIAL - they are not privy to hearing EVERYTHING that is said/occurring in the spirit realm. And so on…
Just as I stated earlier just because someone thinks they understand something or hear something in their head because of the spirit is bunch of nonsense, too many people have too many mental problems.
I agree that too many people have mental problems. I must also say, truthfully, however, that in SOME instances, such "problems" result from them believing those who belittle their gift, those who deny and ridicule it… so that such ones begin to doubt themselves, which doubt leads to a loss of "sensibilities." They give in to such doubt, become VERY confused, and as a result either appear… or actually go… crazy. Not all of us, though.
Also, I need to tell you the TRUTH… that for those of us who DO have such gifts… what we hear is not in our heads. Right now, MY head is filled with things like taking care of my house (I need to vacuum and load the dishwasher, but I ain't really feelin' that right now); my husband (I hope his attorney, a Jewish man who has an ego the size of the middle east, treats him a little better today); my puppies (how come the puppies didn't eat their breakfast and, hmmmm, the medicine seemed to work on the puppy that scratches the most); my children (one of them better call/text me today and fill me in on what we talked about last); some friends (I'm looking forward to seeing them on the 17th); paying bills (Comcast is overcharging us by $20, and we DID pay the $4 toll, so what the heck was that bill we got?); work-related stuff (I need to find a job in a couple/few months); school-related stuff (do I retake the bar or should I go for an LLM? Oh, and I really need to finish up the RE broker's courses); the fact I missed Mad Men (and just why isn't my Tivo/cable getting Channels 40-59 right now); what am I going to cook for dinner; and right now, I need to pay close attention to what I hear… and what I post… so that I write the TRUTH to dear Diamondiiz.
On any given day, it may also include something I read/heard on the news, a billboard I saw, the man walking on the street with the interesting hat; traffic (literally, when I'm driving, which I do a LOT), including but not limited to the "jerk" that cut me off in the fast lane; various current events (I hope they find that little boy); and music (that I am listening to, or need to practice).
My point? I'm a woman: there is a LOT going on in my head just by reason of my gender, and more so with me individually… whether I am asleep or awake… and so there is NO room in there for talking spirits. Absolutely none. The voice is NOT in my head, dear one.
I hope you don't take offense but maybe I'm a doubting Thomas but unless I see something real in this day and age I'm not buying that there is God's spirit acting on anyone today.
You are a doubting Thomas - LOLOLOL! - but I take no more offense with you than my Lord took with Thomas. Listen, it's totally understandable. If someone had told ME, say, 15 years ago, I would have thought… and said… as you are. Absolutely. I can only speak with confidence and certainty… because it IS happening to ME. And I cannot hide it… or lie about it. Trust me, I've tried. It just doesn't work that way.
One can quote and interpret scripture and another will interpret it another way both will claim to be guided by spirit and will point fingers at the other how the other is wrong when in fact both people are delusional and think they're being used by God.
That is totally true. So… how do you KNOW? There is a way:
1. The use of and desired benefit of the gift MUST originate in love. There can be NO hatred, on any level, even slight, in what it is used to say… or do. It cannot hope for demise or destruction. It CAN warn… plead… admonish… exhort… extol… encourage… uplift… and upbuild. But it cannot judge… and it cannot condemn… or even hope for such. This is because the PURPOSE of such gifts are for the UPbuilding of the Body of Christ; NOT for the tearing of it down.
2. The one speaking CANNOT take credit… on ANY level, in ANY manner, for ANY reason… at ANY time… for ANY gift of the Spirit and/or its benefit(s).
3. The one speaking CANNOT… and I do mean CANNOT… ask for, take, receive, suggest, insinuate, or indicate… that ANY amount of money is required, involved, or desired. He or she CANNOT ask for or even suggest a donation or contribution… of ANY sort. Monetary or sustenance. For ANY reason. At ANY time. IF such one is truly using a gift from the Spirit… such one WILL do so for FREE! They RECEIVED free - and they understand they CANNOT turn around and "sell" the benefits of that gift. WITHOUT exception… without a DOUBT.
They KNOW they CANNOT call upon the sheep to provide for them… in ANY manner:
a. They CANNOT call upon the sheep to pay for the construction or maintenance of a meeting place… whether it be a church, a hall, a temple, a synagogue, a cathedral, whathaveyou.
b. They CANNOT call upon the sheep for food.
c. They CANNOT call upon the sheep for clothing.
d. They CANNOT call upon the sheep for shelter
For they KNOW, those who HAVE received gifts of the Spirit… GOD will provide such things.
4. They know they CAN, however…
a. Let the sheep know of others who need such things (IF they are unable to fully provide such things themselves, which should be their FIRST action) and make sure, if the sheep DO give (which giving must be done VOLUNTARILY), that such things make to those actually in need… FREE. And they CANNOT keep anything for themselves.
b. Ask the Father, through Christ, to provide them with circumstances, including a means of living, which will ALLOW them to pursue the PURPOSE of the gift - the building up of the Body of Christ, and doing so in a way that brings glory to God - WITHOUT having to depend on ANYONE… particularly the sheep. And if they are SINCERE, the Most Holy One of Israel WILL provide such circumstances/means. For some it will be more, for some it will be less. The Most Holy One of Israel provides "just as each one needs." So, my "needs" may be less than my sister's… or vice versa.
One can be viewed as wise and knowledgeable and yet the opposite may be true.
Oh, Lordy, don't we know THAT! I give you George W. Bush… Jesse Jackson… Louis Farakhan… various and numerous Popes… the GB of the WTBTS, including, particularly, Charles Russell, Judge Rutherford, and Fred Franz. Just to name a [very small] few!
But being "viewed" (by man) as wise and knowledgeable doesn't make one necessarily so. It is being viewed as wise and knowledgeable… by God and Christ. Which usually means that you are actually viewed as FOOLISH… very… by humans.
Faith love and hope are qualities that we can build and manifest but these are not gifts from God, these may be our manifestation of belief in God and nothing else.
Two of these are fruits of God's holy spirit: faith and love. And hope is a desirable quality. But we are speaking of gifts of that spirit. And regardless the gift, if you don't have LOVE… it is moot. No point in prophesying if what you're saying isn't upbuilding. No point in healing if you really couldn't care less that the person is "better"… AND that God is glorified as a result. Anything less is an "empty" application of such a gift. What's the point?
There are Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus who have their faith, may even be brilliant in wisdom and knowledge and yet do they have God's holy spirit as per Christian faith? No, they don't even put faith in Christ.
Such ones are those who are "a law unto themselves" and show that they have the law "written on their hearts." God is not working with such groups, per se… because the only GROUP He is obligated to is Israel… and those who go with them. Even Muslims acknowledge the promise made to their forefather, Abraham, however, as do Jews. The issue is whether Christ is the One by means that promise is fulfilled, which these two groups deny.
But God has not entirely rejected these: He sent His Son because He loved NOT just Israel… but the WORLD. And so, He calls ones OUT of such groups… just as He calls ones (like me) OUT of the WTBTS. And those of us who come OUT of such organizations have NOT formed a NEW religion, a NEW organization, a NEW church. We ARE the church, the Body of Christ. We ARE the "temple" of God… and we don't go around inviting people to "join" anything… except TO Christ (i.e., join themselves to Christ. Because WE are not the leaders or teachers: HE is.
You don't "see" us, dear Diamondiiz… because, unlike such religions… we don't trust in ourselves that we are "righteous." Rather, we are the SERVANTS of earthling man. So whatever "good" we do… whatever "gifts" we share… whomever is healed, or fed, or clothed… whatever prophesying we do… whatever tongues we speak… are NOT put out there on a large scale so as to be glorified by MEN… and the world. They are done just as our Lord did them… and teaches us to do: discreetly, quietly… to the glory of God. For it is not US… who do anything. We are just instruments… vessels.
If, therefore, one of us HAS healed someone… you most likely will not hear of it. A doctor may know of it… but due to [great] skepticism, not acknowledge it… openly or personally. If one of HAS prophesied, you most likely will not hear of it. Because such is for the Body of Christ… just like it used to be only for Israel (or kings of other nations with regard to Israel)… and so will only be given to them. If one speaks in tongues… or another interprets… you most likely won't hear of it. Because it most likely was done in a very small group in someone's home.
You HAVE heard of someone who hears spirits, particularly Christ, because you have come here - and I have been sent here. But had you not come here, you most probably wouldn't have heard of that, either. That is because I am not declaring my gift(s) to the world, dear Diamondiiz. My assigned "territory" is this place. And while it's true that a lot of folks come here, they are by NO means a substantial group in comparison to the world. And not everyone reads what I post. In fact, I would wager that most do NOT. You know of me… because you've somehow read posts where I've participated. But I speak what I hear and am given… and I don't charge… or ask for… a cent. Indeed, very often it is the other way around.
Dear one, the gifts are NOT for the world… but for the building up of the Body of Christ, and, therefore, are used by, for… and to the benefit of… these, almost exclusively.
So the delusion that God is using his spirit today is just that - a big delusion!
That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it!
That's like saying that Christ returned invisibly
He did. He is a spirit… which beings are invisible to the physical eye, unless they physically manifest in some way. Sometimes they appear as "able-bodied men," some times a brightly "lighted."
and since you can't prove he hasn't doesn't mean he hasn't - same argument with invisible acts of holy spirit today
I can actually prove he has… and have offered to do that for MANY here… a few of whom have taken me up on my offer (we have met face to face after a PM introduction, etc.)… but most of whom who don't. Those who have not most usualy understand... and don't want to experience what my Lord meant when he said, "If anyone wants to come after me, let him DISOWN himself, and pick up his torture tree/stake/pole day after day and follow me continually." They just don't want to make that kind of committment or experience a kind of life that such statement suggests (and it can be like a torture stake at times). Those who have, however (and I am not at liberty to say who they are and violate their privacy)… have received gifts in their own right... and realize that while the description "torture stake" is accurate... they would have it no other way. Because the "rewards" so far outweigh the "work." The same offer is open to you, as well… if you TRULY wish it.
I don't buy it. Hope I didn't offend anyone but that's my view and unless I see something otherwise I'm not changing my mind.
You absolutely did not offend me, dear one - LOLOLOLOL! It doesn't work like that. What is the point of me trying to speak truth to you… and then getting irritate or even angry because you cannot see it… yet? That only means I may have more work to do… if you are truly WANTING to know the truth. Or perhaps you will NEVER see it, and that's okay, too. You don't belong to me! That you need to see something is the NORM; indeed, even a disciple who literally walked with Christ required this. How can I demand more of you than my Lord asked of him? I can't, dear one. It doesn't work that way, truly.
Again, I bid you peace… and ears to hear the invitation the Spirit and the Bride, who say "Come! Take 'life's water'… holy spirit from the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies… God, which spirit is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… FREE!"
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
