Jesus' Role as Mediator

by sd-7 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  sd-7

  I just had a thought--never a good sign, right, ladies?--about Jesus' role as Mediator, as defined by the Watchtower Society. I personally experienced a particularly interesting moment with my mother back when I first started to lose faith in the Borg. (I'm actually going to use that term, Borg, now because "organization" makes me cringe every time I hear it, even when it's used at work.)

  I explained to her the reality, that Jesus Christ is not our Mediator, according to our beliefs--it was just studied in the Watchtower probably a few weeks before then! Jesus is referred to in that article as "THEIR Mediator", that is, the Mediator for the anointed ones. This is, after all, the very reason why we cannot partake of the Memorial emblems! She looked at me as if I was crazy and said, "Jesus is our Mediator. Those apostates have twisted your mind."

  It's interesting to see that many JWs probably don't have the slightest idea what they believe, when it gets 'too deep'. They're just caught up in the treadmill of works.

  So back to the thought that popped into my head, 'cause I wanted to share it with you folks. Jesus' role as Mediator, according to the Society, is vastly illogical for a reason I never thought of until now:

  The old covenant with the nation of Israel was between God and 3 million (that's 3,000,000) Israelites. So Jesus comes to mediate a new covenant, a superior covenant by means of which all nations will be blessed. How many people get invited into it? 144,000. So, why would the new, superior covenant have vastly less people in it, especially since it was supposed to be extending God's personal relationship to all people? What makes this covenant truly superior if the majority of mankind is still forced to hang onto the coattails of 'Israelites' like the proselytes used to do? Ultimately, the 'great crowd' is really in a modified version of the old covenant--they serve the priesthood and offer 'sacrifices' (meetings, field service, etc.), and they are in constant fear that in fact, despite the depth of God's love through Jesus Christ, their sins may not be forgiven if they don't obey the anointed (well, let's be real, if they don't obey the Governing Body, or the articles that are written by the 'other sheep' and glanced over by the GB).

  The great crowd gets to wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb, yet they cannot drink the wine that represents his blood at the Lord's evening meal? Why not go to a bar, buy a drink, and then pass it down to someone else, and claim you went out drinking last night? It makes about as much sense.

  Well, rather than making this message too much longer, I better stop. By the way, no interrogations from the Thought Police last night at my meeting--they didn't have the right assets in place to make their move. Maybe once my 'group overseer' and the COBOE are around, then they'll come for me. It'll be fun, like being chased by a Star Destroyer. Talk to you later. Look forward to your comments.

  SD-7
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  xelder

  excelent logic. Thats a new way of looking at it for me
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  JWoods

  One interesting point is the doctrine mentioned in an above thread "Got me to thinking" by Snowbird.

  It is related to this.

  JWs think that Annointed JWs go directly to heaven upon death because of their relation to JC (new covenant).

  Great Crowd obviously do not have JC new covenant forgiveness - they are absolved of sin temporarily by their own death. Then they "start over" in the new earth and are under threat of the second death at the end of 1000 years. Pretty much the same as somebody from say the Gobi Desert who never heard of the witnesses, and in fact, all non-christians (except maybe Adam) from the past.

  Big difference in the arrangements, eh? same covenant? HARDLY.
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  yknot

  .....What I like about the JW interpretation is how easy it is to discern Rutherford's motivations when he changed it!

  I doubt there was a spiritual bone in that man's body!
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  snowbird

  Yeah, JWoods!

  Why so difficult for some?

  My question that was never answered satisfactorily.

  Sylvia
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  Nostromo

  Yep you are right, this is just one of those many things they are wrong.
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  Deputy Dog

  I never could understand how a man or an angel would qualify, to speak for God in any mediation.
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  Chalam

  It's interesting to see that many JWs probably don't have the slightest idea what they believe, when it gets 'too deep'.

  It is obvious the WT are using their "theocratic warfare" on the JWs.

  Not only that, the doctrine goes directly against the words of the bible itself.

  1 Timothy 2:5-6 (New International Version)

  5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.

  One mediator for all, plain and simple.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Chalam

  I think there has been confusion of Jesus being mediator of the covenant with the bride, and that of Jesus being mediator between Jehovah and man, as stephen brought out

  Not guilty! I didn't mention "the bride" at all. Seems you are alluding to a two class Christian system

  Who is the "bride of Christ"? Jesus' disciples Matthew 9:14-16

  If you think it is anything to do with a "heavenly class" then read this Revelation 21:2, the bride is those who come down "out of heaven" and live in the New Jerusalem on the earth.

  Plain and simple, one body of believers (the church/bridge of Christ/royal priesthood etc.), one hope (not "heavenly" or "earthly"), one Lord (Jesus is Lord), one faith (not two), one baptism.

  Ephesians 4:4-5 (New International Version)

  4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  sd-7

  I think there has been confusion of Jesus being mediator of the covenant with the bride, and that of Jesus being mediator between Jehovah and man, as stephen brought out.

  As I said earlier, Jesus' role as mediator as discussed in very recent Watchtower articles (ie. 2009), is discussed in one way and only one way--as the Mediator of the new covenant between Jehovah and the 144,000. The scripture used to support that is consistently 1 Tim. 2:5, 6. It was the same in both the article regarding the Memorial and in another article that discussed Jesus' role as mediator. There is no other mediator role that has ever been discussed, certainly not in recent times, for Jesus Christ.

  Are we now going to say that Jesus is Mediator in two different ways (just as supposedly God had 'the Kingdom of the Son of his love', in the 1st century congregation, and then the other Messianic, universal Kingdom)? Because that's news to me. Or is this covenant with bride/God and man statement just a red herring? I don't know. That paste looks a lot like it's from the Insight book. While I think this is getting a little gritty, given that there are certainly enough other holes in the doctrine, I like it. By all means, continue.

  SD-7