Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-06-09 WT Study (TREASURES)

by blondie 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-06-09 WT Study (July 15, 2009, pages 3-7)(TREASURES JESUS)

    Review comments will be in red or headed by COMMENTS

    WT material from today's WT will be in black
    Quotes from other sources will headed by QUOTES
    w = Watchtower
    g = Awake
    jv = Proclaimers book

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    "Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.--COL. 2:3


    Q1,2. (a) What artifacts were discovered in 1922, and where did they end up? (b) God's Word extends what invitation

    to everyone?

    Why does the WTS pick only material treasures for non-jws to treasure? I have met many people who treasure

    non-physical things such as family and friends, their faith.

    Why does the WTS pick something that does not have any effect on our day to day life and then present it as the only

    thing to be discussed?

    Does anyone remember the hoopla with the tour of Tutankhamen's things? The tour still continues.

    Q3. In what ways are the treasures that Jehovah urges his worshippers to seek beneficial?

    his worshippers = only jws
    relationship with God = where's a relationship with Jesus?

    fear of God = fear of WTS
    knowledge of God = only as the WTS defines it

    Q4. What directions to spiritual treasurers do we have?

    WE (WTS) know exactly where found = so no one else thinks that spiritual treasures are found in the bible/
    in him = in Christ (not Jehovah)

    Q5. Why was Paul writing about spiritual treasures?

    In your experience were jws truly harmoniously joined together in love or fear?

    EVIDENTLY = a word the WTS uses when what they say next is not in the bible

    So has the WTS returned to Mosaic laws and observances when it comes to the use of blood, 3 gatherings a year =

    conventions/assemblies. Can you think of other teachings/procedures that the WTS uses OT references as an


    Q6. Why should we be interested in Paul's counsel?

    Satan and his wicked system = all non-jws

    What is secular humanism? The WTS does not define it here.

    What about the debased tendencies in the bible: Lot having sex with his daughters, the jewish man who gave his

    concubine over to be gang-raped and murdered by fellow jews and then cut her up in 12 pieces?

    direction that God provides = only direction from the WTS

    Q7. What two things did Paul say would help the Colossians?

    "fully convinced that THEIR understanding of the scriptures was correct" - whose understanding? The one fed to them

    on high or was it like the Bereans?

    Did you know that the WTS has one application of Acts 17:10,11 for non-jws and another for jws?

    *** w03 9/1 p. 7 One True Christian Faith—A Reality ***
    Maybe you feel that you have already found that church, or congregation. It is important that you make sure. Why?

    Because as in the first century, there can be only one true church. Have you taken the time to make sure that your

    church closely conforms to the pattern set by the first-century Christian congregation and that it loyally adheres to the

    teachings of Jesus Christ? Why not examine this now? Jehovah’s Witnesses will be happy to help you to do just

    that.—Acts 17:11.

    *** w02 4/1 pp. 4-5 Search for God With Your Heart and Mind ***
    For example, a number of people in the Macedonian city of Beroea “received the word [of God] with the greatest

    eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things [explained by Paul and his

    companions] were so.” (Acts 17:11) Two things are worth noting here. First, the Beroeans were eager to listen to God’s

    Word; second, they did not blindly assume that what they heard was correct, but they referred back to the Scriptures.

    but for jws

    *** w81 2/15 pp. 18-19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***

    How shall we view the spiritual food provided by this “faithful and discreet slave”? Should it be viewed critically—‘Oh,

    well, it might be true but then again it might not be and so we have to scrutinize it very critically’? Some apparently have

    felt that way about it. To support their way of thinking they have quoted Acts 17:11, which says of newly interested

    persons at Beroea: “Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with

    the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”

    But does this mean that those Beroeans were looking for flaws in the message they were hearing, or that their attitude

    was one of doubting? Does this set a precedent for regarding critically the publications brought forth by the “faithful and

    discreet slave,” with a view to finding fault? Not at all!

    First of all, let us note the setting of the statement about the noble-minded Beroeans. Paul, accompanied by Silas, was

    on his second missionary tour. Due to persecution that arose, the brothers at Thessalonica sent them on to Beroea. In

    Beroea they met sincere Jews who had strong faith in God’s Word. These were not Christians yet. They were simply

    interested persons who had to satisfy themselves that what Paul was telling them had the support of the Hebrew


    Up to this time, these devout Jews in Beroea may never have heard of Jesus Christ. What Paul was telling them was

    entirely new. So those noble-minded Jews in Beroea searched the Scriptures daily to make certain that the references

    that Paul gave were really part of God’s Word. And with what mental attitude did they pursue their studies? With a

    skeptical attitude, trying to prove Paul wrong? No, they were altogether unlike Paul’s critics on Mars Hill, for we read that

    they heard Paul’s testimony with “the greatest eagerness of mind.”—Acts 17:11, 32.

    These Beroeans listened with a readiness, yes, an eagerness, to believe. Thus not only were they open-minded, but

    they were wanting to have this “good news” proved true. In fact, for a person to acquire faith he must have “the will to

    believe.” If he is determined not to believe, then no amount of evidence will convince him; for if a person looks for them

    he can always find excuses, plausible reasons for not accepting the accountability that belief will bring upon him. As the

    apostle Paul well said: “Faith is not a possession of all people.” (2 Thess. 3:2) But the Beroeans had the will to believe.

    They considered what they heard with a receptive frame of mind. As a result, “many of them became believers, and so

    did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men.”—Acts 17:12.

    Jesus’ disciples wrote many letters to Christian congregations, to persons who were already in “the way of the truth.” (2

    Pet. 2:2) But nowhere do we read that those brothers first, in a skeptical frame of mind, checked the Scriptures to make

    certain that those letters had Scriptural backing, that the writers really knew what they were talking about.

    So only nonjws can examine what they believe. jws supposedly already have "the truth" and should not be checking.

    If jws are supposed to advance beyond the basics, how many of them can explain a basic WT teaching without reading

    for a WTS publication?

    Treasures "Concealed in" Christ

    Q8. Explain the meaning of the term "concealed in" Christ.

    Maybe not locked away but only accessible through the WTS/FDS/GB.

    *** w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible—A Book Meant to Be Understood ***
    Even as Bible prophecy pointed forward to the Messiah, it also directs us to the close-knit body of anointed Christian

    Witnesses that now serve as the faithful and discreet slave. It helps us to understand the Word of God. All who want to

    understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through

    Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.—John 6:68.

    Attention directed to Jesus or the WTS/FDS/GB? Direction from Jesus only through WTS/FDS/GB?

    *** w05 9/15 p. 23 par. 11 Go On Walking as Jesus Christ Walked ***
    Yes, Jesus Christ leads his followers today through the holy spirit, “the faithful and discreet slave,” and the

    congregation elders.

    *** w01 7/15 p. 16 par. 6 Press On in the Harvest Work! ***
    Jehovah thus uses Jesus to direct the harvest work through the heavenly angels and the anointed “faithful and discreet

    slave” here on the earth. (Matthew 24:45-47; Revelation 14:6, 7)

    *** w01 8/1 p. 14 par. 8 Make Your Advancement Manifest ***
    First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as

    far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas

    when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah

    God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and “the faithful and discreet slave.” By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided

    “at the proper time”—through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions—we can be sure that we

    maintain “oneness” with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.—Matthew 24:45.

    Q9. What roles have been assigned to Jesus?

    Notice how Jesus becomes only a tool to a relationship with God, getting everlasting life, etc. Where is the friendship

    with Jesus, the closeness to him as an individual? If you read the older publications of Charles Taze Russell, you will

    see that members back then viewed Jesus as a beloved older brother, a close family member.

    CARROT: Everlasting life

    "careful students of the Bible" or WT publications?

    Relationship with God or Jesus?

    Q10. What can we learn about Jesus from Colossians 1:19 and 2:9?

    So what have you learned about Jesus as an individual so far?

    Q11. What is the connection between Jesus and Bible prophecies?

    Do jws prophesy per Rev. 19:10?

    The WTS teaches that prophecies are not understood truly until in the midst of fulfillment or after fulfillment.

    *** w04 2/1 p. 21 par. 13 “The Scene of This World Is Changing” ***
    Since Bible prophecies are often fully understood only after they are fulfilled or are in the process of fulfillment, we will

    have to wait and see.

    Which prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures are puzzling?

    Q12,13. (a) How is Jesus "the light of the word"? (b) Having been freed from religious darkness, Christ's followers are

    under what obligation?

    Light--from the Bible or the WTS explanation?

    False religious teachings: Yet from 1879 to 1931, members of the WTS were slaves as the cross appeared on the

    cover of the Watchtower.

    *** yb75 p. 148 Part 2—United States of America ***
    Some three years thereafter, beginning with its issue of October 15, 1931, The Watchtower no longer bore the cross

    and crown symbol on its cover.

    Christians--only jws

    Q14,15. (a) How were sheep and other animals featured in true worship in Bible times? (b) Why is Jesus an

    imcomparable treasure in his role as "the Lamb of God"?

    How many jws actually sacrifice themselves; if so, only for the carrot of everlasting life. Jesus again is just a tool to

    reach that goal, not a person to have a close relationship too, an older brother to depend on.

    jws study the ransom because it is a goal to reach everlasting life in paradise. It is the reward that motivates them and

    not necessarily that others outside the "intimate" group get life.

    Q16,17. Why is it essential that we understand Jesus' role as "the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith"?

    An examination of older WTS publications will show that women are rarely mentioned as examples. Here we have

    Sarah and Rahab mentioned finally.

    Do jws today grasp any more what these non-Christians grasped? Were they any less faithful? In fact, Abraham was

    faithful although knowing he would not receive the reward in his lifetime. How many jws can say the same?

    *** w86 5/15 p. 17 par. 7 Finding Delight in Jehovah’s Word ***
    But remember, Abraham abandoned his home city and lived out his life in tents although he would never in his lifetime

    see the fulfillment of God’s promises. (Hebrews 11:8-10)

    Q18,19. (a) Name other spiritual gems concealed in Christ. (b) Why should we continue to look to Jesus for spiritual


    So is Christ merely a role player for jws or meant to be a close friend, an older brother? Once again the CARROT of

    "eternal welfare" is what is highlighted, the only true spiritual treasure for jws.


    Sorry, this was late. Things with my scanner and my own physical being have been a barrier.

    Love, Blondie

  • OnTheWayOut

    Q1,2. (a) What artifacts were discovered in 1922, and where did they end up?

    Why does the WTS pick only material treasures for non-jws to treasure?

    Why not mention the treasures that were hidden to preserve precious writings at Nag Hammadi?
    Why not mention that people hid alternate gospel accounts? I am not saying they could say that these alternates are valid, but a better point could be made to search things out for yourself and not to close your mind, avoid education, stick to one organization's literature.

    Para. 6
    What is secular humanism? The WTS does not define it here.

    Good point, Blondie. It's just demonized and linked to evolution in the paragraph.
    Despite the general rejection of supernatural forces by Secular Humanists, their focus is on philosophy that teaches reasoning, ethics, and justice, leading happy lives.

    Para. 7 is unwittingly begging JW's to check outside sources when it says people needed to be "fully convinced that THEIR understanding of the scriptures was correct." But it just gets twisted back to "the truth" by saying in para. 8 to "avail ourselves of the help and direction that Jesus provides."

    Para. 9
    Notice how Jesus becomes only a tool to a relationship with God, getting everlasting life, etc.

    Ah, this is where they are going. They look mainstream by getting Jesus in the picture more often, but just use him as a goody goody nice way to introduce people to blind obedience to a cold organization based on an OT God.

  • flipper

    BLONDIE- Wow. Thanks for posting ! More mind control drivel to scare the JW relatives any of us may still have in the cult.

    I just had to mention paragraph 6 . Good lord. Talk about using fear tactics to scare the witnesses.

    " We face similar circumstances from Satan and his wicked system. Worldly philosophy, including secular humanism , and the theory of evolution, shapes people's thinking, morals, goals, and lifestyles. The entertainment industries pander to the debased tendencies of the fallen flesh, and much of the content of the Internet poses a real danger to young and old alike. "

    So the WT society just assumes that people are fornicating and committing adultery all over the place due to believing in evolution ? Humanism ? Philosophy ? Some of the most moral people I know are non-religious people. So once again the WT society paints non-witnesses with the same brush stroke. Also entertainment is mostly very educational and uplifting. Good comedy movies, dramas, animal planet, history channel- but Oh no, our flesh is fallen if we watch ANY worldly entertainment. And we ALL know why they tell JW's not to read the Internet - so the rank and file witness won't run into the danger of discovering the REAL TRUTH about what the WT society is up to in protecting pedophiles and so no members will find out any history about the witnesses which exposes them. So it's dangerous - Yeah, dangerous to the GB and leaders protecting the WT cult, but really helpful to any lurking witness wanting to learn the REALITY about the Watchtower society

  • dissed

    This is just like the family WT study at Bethel, except people are actually allowed to speak whats on their mind.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Ironic that they would start the lesson with reference to Tut's treasures in ancient Egypt. Although Tut would have ruled during the period of the judges in Israel, Tut belongs to the 18th dynasty! The first dynasty and Egyptian hieroglyphics dates to around 3100 BC! That's long before the mythical flood and the legend of confused languages at Babylon... that's about the time mythical Adam would have died! Predynastic artifacts go back even further in giving an accurate account of world history!

    The treasures of Tutankhamun, their greatest value disproves the bible!

    Thanks Blondie!... and sorry for all the exclamation marks!

  • darkl1ght3r

    Para. 2 - "And with the treasures of God given wisdom, knoweledge, and discernment, we will be able to deal successfully with problems and issues in our daily life."

    What this really says to the average JW is, "If you're unhappy, you're not doing it right. You are failing. There is something wrong with you." No wonder so many of them are self-conscious wrecks on anti-depressants.

    Para. 6 - "Worldly philosophy, including secular humanism and the theory of evolution, shapes peoples thinking morals and lifestyle."

    Yes... thanks to secular humanism (and utilitarianism), I now care MORE about my life choices, and I'm genuinely interested in the welfare of my fellow humans instead of how much "time" I can wring out of them. In short... I am now more moral than I was when I was a JW. But I'll admit that my standard of morality is arbitrary, much as theirs is. If they judge me as deficiant by their standards, that's fine. They are deficiant by mine. The difference is, my morality is based on observation, reason, and empathy. They are only moral becasue their Big Book of Multiple Choice tells them to be.

    To the WT I ask: Why be good when you can just be forgiven?

    And evolution is not a "philosophy". It's science. Do you know anyone who bases their morals and lifestyle on the theory of gravitation? Or how about string theory? Or the theory of relativity? Or quantum theory? Science is amoral. It simply is.

    Para. 14 - "Throughout the Bible, sheep played a notable role in the remission of sin and approach to God."

    A "notable" role? Yeah, if you consider getting your throat slit and your entrails strung out and burnt because the anthropomorphic nostrils of Jehovah loved the smell, "notable". Sheep were "notable" for the fact that Jehovah seemed to sadistically enjoy seeing thousands upon thousands of them slaughtered senselessly, for no reason other than because he wanted it that way. Sick. I mean... I'm no PETA whackjob, but come on.

    Wow... I tried to read the whole article but it's so mind-numbingly dry and meaningless. Ugh... I'm so glad I don't have to sit through that crap for an hour on sunday anymore.

  • WTWizard

    Seems the witlesses are missing the real treasure. If they only realized how simple the real moral code actually is, they would abandon the whole idea of using the Bible to create all these mazes of problems, and find the real treasure--which is the ability to create value for mankind and self. If they would pursue that treasure, they could have made the world a better place.

    Not only that, but with all the lying lawyers in the Washtowel, I am sure they would be better off lying in order to market innovations that cannot be put on the market the regular way because they would threaten companies and rulers that want to control mankind (and God, that wants to distress us to dangle salvation in front of us). It would still be lying, but at least they could create a lot of good, paving the way for other innovaters instead of paving the way for pushing their religious cancer on mankind.

  • Pistoff

    "Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.--COL. 2:3

    Exactly what does Paul mean? Is this another hint that Paul was more than a little influenced by gnostic ideas, that the real merit of Jesus was not on the surface, ie, his resurrection, but something deeper? This statement, and Paul's reference to an out of body spiritual experience, suggest to me that Paul was influenced by gnostic ideas.

    To me this is more psychosis inducing material for the "other sheep"; Jesus means so much, but then not for YOU; you cannot be his brother, only a friend of his brothers. He is not your mediator, but ours; you only get his reflected glory, from US.

    For me, the Jesus of the gospels was a unique figure, even transformational; his teachings were unique, and likely transcended the boundaries of male/female, jew/gentile and poor/rich, something that is still a struggle today.

    Great job blondie; I like the scans.


  • BluesBrother

    I am sorry but I am confused as to why a thread started a day ago is discussing the Watchtower Study for Sunday 6th Sept , two weeks ago?

    Todays article, from the same magazine, is "Imitate Jesus, Teach with Love"

    Or am I totally off the wall

  • fokyc

    I am also confused I saw this yesterday; checked my Watchtower schedule and asked the same question, why is this posted now?

    Perhaps I have lost my way? Very easy! BUT Sister fokyc has just left for the KH and she is definitely studying

    the Watchtower for July 15, 2009 page 15, "Imitate Jesus - Teach With Love" as BluesBrother thinks.


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