Daily text - Matt 26:41

by YoYoMama 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama

    I understand what you are trying to say by near.

    At the time Peter wrote the end was then near. Peter wrote sometime between 62 to 64 C.E., and it was shortly after that, in the year 70, that the end finally came to the Jewish system of things.

    We do not want just to look back at that time, however. For Jesus’ prophecy regarding “the conclusion of the system of things” has application today; in fact, its major application is now. And so, too, does Peter’s similar warning that “the end of all things has drawn close.” God’s purpose is to wipe out this entire wicked system and usher in his ‘new heavens and new earth’ in the immediate future, (Matt. 24:3-22; 2 Pet. 3:13)

    So we are living at a time when the horrible destruction of Jerusalem and its environs will pale into insignificance in comparison with the “great tribulation” now so near.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    YYK,

    We do not want just to look back at that time, however. For Jesus’ prophecy regarding “the conclusion of the system of things” has application today; in fact, its major application is now. And so, too, does Peter’s similar warning that “the end of all things has drawn close.” God’s purpose is to wipe out this entire wicked system and usher in his ‘new heavens and new earth’ in the immediate future.

    I asked for 'evidence', not chewing-gum in words. Learn to do your own research and not rely on a theologicaly compromised group of semi-educated men to do this for you.

    . For Jesus’ prophecy regarding “the conclusion of the system of things” has application today.

    Prove it. You may be correct, or you may be incorrect but you need to evidence this to maintain any sort of credibility, which I must add is filtering away with each post that you make!

    I might suggest that you start with 'The Last Days According To Jesus', by R.C. Sproul.

    HS

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1
    I might suggest that you start with 'The Last Days According To Jesus', by R.C. Sproul.

    That woundn't be 'postate literature, would it? Now we can't have none of that. What woud the Society think of that?

    Seriously, it sounds like a good book.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

    Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
    http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected]

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama
    Prove it

    Do you not see the proof in the world around us? Don't kid yourself, every day we have new proof, for the words of Jesus and the apostle Paul are being fulfilled.

  • seven006
    seven006

    YoYo,

    You go back to generalities based on individual interpretation every time you get stumped so it becomes apparent that you do not want to play outside of your own rules. Your existence on this board alone proves that.

    In another thread as you were pinned down about your posting here and you said that your accountable to Jesus, giving the thought that you are not accountable to the JW rules for their people. Again you play dodge ball with words to make them fit you individual needs. In that way of thinking about Jesus being one and the JW's being another you make yourself no more reverent to the JW religion than I am. Like "You know", you claim to be a JW until that label disagrees with your actions, then you play your Jesus card.

    Heres a thought you can ignore in regard to your last statement. It is a quote from the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. I do not wish to offend my Christian friends on this board but
    I am going to quote it as he said it. My reference is to the JW's in this thought:

    "The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly has made the world evil and ugly."

    You can see the world as you like YoYo (or as the JW's tell you to see it), what you think you might see does not make it so.

    Take care,

    Dave

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama
    In another thread as you were pinned down about your posting here and you said that your accountable to Jesus, giving the thought that you are not accountable to the JW rules for their people.

    I never said that. I am accountable to Jesus and also appreciate all the direction and suggestions that the slave class gives me.

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama
    You can see the world as you like YoYo (or as the JW's tell you to see it), what you think you might see does not make it so.

    So when I watch the news and read newspapers and see the words of Jesus come true, it is only what I want to see?

    Don't be blind to the proof around you. You just don't want to admit it because that will prove the Witnesses are right and you just can't live with that.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    YYW,

    Do you not see the proof in the world around us? Don't kid yourself, every day we have new proof, for the words of Jesus and the apostle Paul are being fulfilled.

    I see a world in peril, however, read your history books YYW. In fact read the last Awake magazine that contained information about the 'Black Death' that occurred in the C14th and which decimated, the population of Europe. It is estimated to have killed half of the population. If this happened today it would result in the death of around 800 million people. The times were more perilous then than now.

    For example, did you know that you stood three times the chance of being murdered in Dublin, London and Paris in the mid C18th than you do now. That until the C19th you stood a 28% chance of dying in childbirth in Europe.

    Did you know that approximately 1% of Americans are criminals and that this figure drops yearly? Go to your KH, tonight and give an answer to the effect that 99% of the citizens of the USA are law-abiding and see the looks you get. I will not even get into life expectancies and standard of living as Larc tackled the issue with YK.

    Imagine that you were living in the C14th YYW, and that you were a member of one of the 'cult', end-times religions that proliferated in those days also. Imagine if the Watchtower was being printed then what it would contain?

    Yes, these are dangerous times, pollution and economic instability are not issues to be trifled with. We do face ecological ruin if we as a worldwide village do not wake up and count the forests, but without doubt, times have been more difficult in the past.

    Research this for yourself YYW. Try reading a book written by a true historian as opposed to a group of sensationalists with an investment in a certain agenda. For example, the WTS quotes on occasion from Barbara W. Tuchman’s book, ‘A distant Mirror, The Calamitous 14th Century’, read it and then post your views to this Board.

    Unfortunately YYW, as JW’s we allowed the philosophies and traditions of men to devour our better judgment, the only way that a person can find the real truth is by hard and honest research of the facts.

    There is nothing that I would like more than that the WTS package, which I adhered to for decades, was the real truth. What I would say to you is that if you are happy that what you are being taught as ‘Truth’ is truth, then this Board is of no interest to you. Howvever, if you want to know the truth, start searching, and be prepared for some disquieting shocks.

    Kindest regards -- HS

    edited for grammatical chaos

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    To YoYoMama:

    Your post encapsulates a great deal of what has been wrong with Watchtower notions for 120 years. The argument presented is self-contradictory and blatantly ignores both reality and various Bible passages. Let's see how:

    : Matt 26:41 "Keep on the watch and pray continually, that you may not enter into temptation."

    A bare question like this does not say just what to "keep on the watch" for. In context, Jesus was telling his disciples to keep on the watch for the men who were about to come and arrest him. Of couse, the disciples were not to keep on the watch for some sign that the arresters were about to arrive, but for the arresters themselves, that they had already arrived.

    : Commentary:

    : What would help us to keep on the watch? While in the garden of Gethsemane shortly before his arrest, Jesus told three of his apostles the above. Years later, Peter gave similar counsel to fellow Christians. He wrote "The end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers." (1 Pet. 4:7)

    The Society has long claimed directly or by implication that this passage applies also to our day, the time since 1914 -- not just to the soon-to-come destruction of Jerusalem. Simply going through the WTS CDROM brings up plenty of references.

    A number of Bible passages that the Society claims apply to "the final end" are cross-referenced to 1 Peter 4:7. Here are a couple of examples:

    Psalm 37:10: "And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more..."

    Luke 21:35-36: "For it will come in upon all those dwelling upon the face of all the earth. Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication..."

    Watchtower publications have made more direct application of 1 Peter 4:7 to our day:

    *** yb00 222 Czech Republic ***
    [Jehovah's Witnesses] well know that when describing the events of our day, Jesus said: "By endurance on your part you will acquire your souls." (Luke 21:19) And the apostle Peter was inspired to write: "The end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers. Above all things, have intense love for one another." (1 Pet. 4:7, 8)

    *** km 4/99 1 Intensifying the Witness as the End Nears ***
    There is even greater reason for us to cultivate that same sense of urgency now, as "the end of all things has drawn close." (1 Pet. 4:7)

    *** yb98 254 A Letter from the Governing Body ***
    They are sustained by Jehovah's love, by the intense love of the international brotherhood, and by a keen awareness that the events of our day all point unmistakably to the near end of the old system.-Rom. 8:35-39; 1 Pet. 4:7, 8.

    *** w97 8/15 17 "Soundness of Mind" as the End Draws Close ***
    "The end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore."-1 PETER 4:7.
    THE above words of the apostle Peter should have a profound effect upon the way Christians live their lives.

    *** w93 6/1 13 Be Sound in Mind-The End Is Close ***
    "The end of all things has drawn close. Be sound in mind, therefore, and be vigilant with a view to prayers."-1 PETER 4:7.

    *** g90 2/22 21 Sudden Destruction!-How Have They Coped? ***
    The Bible prophecy has even greater force in our day: "The end of all things has drawn close."

    *** km 12/75 2 Your Service Meetings ***
    25 min: "The End of All Things Has Drawn Close." Discussion of 1 Peter 4:7-19, with passages on which questions are based being read first. (When the apostle Peter wrote, he was referring to the approaching end of the Jewish system of things. Today we are fast approaching the end of the entire wicked system. So the admonition of Peter has timely meaning to us.)

    *** w75 9/15 563 Have You 'Stopped Storing Up Treasures on Earth'? ***
    As we consider these fine examples and appreciate today that "the end of all things has drawn close" (1 Pet. 4:7), ...

    *** w73 6/15 362 Be "Sound in Mind" as the New Order Draws Near ***
    In view of the now fast approaching end, on what should we focus attention? "Be sound in mind, therefore," is the inspired writer's counsel, "and be vigilant with a view to prayers." (1 Pet. 4:7)

    *** w73 6/15 365 Be "Sound in Mind" as the New Order Draws Near ***
    Why can we believe that the apostle's counsel beginning at 1 Peter 4:7 fits us at this time?

    *** w65 12/1 732 Moving Forward in Jehovah's Service ***
    Although I know I have found the truth, I have not yet officially taken the step of dedicating my life to Jehovah. One day-it is in the autumn of 1918-for recreation I attend a concert of classical music. Casually I pull a colored piece of paper out of my pocket. I do not even remember how it got there. It is a program of the "Autumn Day-Assembly of the Bible Students Association in County Hall in Berne." I read the text printed on it, which says: "The end of all things is at hand."-1 Pet. 4:7, AV.

    : Clearly, fervent prayer should be a part of our Christian routine. (Rom. 12:12; 1 Thess. 5:17) Note that Peter also said "The end of all things has drawn close." How close? There is no way for humans to pinpoint the exact day and hour. (Matt. 24:36)

    At the 1993 summer district conventions the Society did away with its traditional interpretation of Matthew 24:36 and then claimed that it, along with many other passages from Matthew 24:15-44 apply to the future. In line with this, the Society in 1995 applied many parts of Matthew 25, to the future, especially changing its tradition about when the separation of "the sheep and the goats" was to occur.

    : But there is a difference between indulging in speculation, which the Bible does not encourage, and keeping in expectation of the end, which it does encourage. (2 Tim. 4:3, 4; Titus 3:9)

    Indeed there is a difference. Until the aftermath of its failed predictions and encouraging of expectations for "the end" in 1975, JW leaders did not seem to know the difference. Indeed, prophetic speculation was an integral part of the JW experience.

    Today, the tendency to prophetic speculation among JW leaders is not dead, but has simply been toned down a little. Rather than quietly 'keeping in expectation' and watching for when "the Master" actually arrives, they constantly remind their followers to watch for "signs" that he is about to arrive. In other words, they constantly try to interpret events so as to anticipate the arrival of "the Master" -- quite opposite to the avoidance of speculation that Jesus encouraged. Indeed, so fervent are JW leaders to continue their prophetic speculation that they have completely lost sight of Jesus' words in Luke 21:8:

    He said: "Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he,' and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them."
    The men of the Governing Body of "the faithful and discreet slave" certainly "come on the basis of" Jesus' name, they certainly say, "I am he" in the sense of "I am the one prophesied who Jesus appointed to lead his people in these last days", and they have certainly proclaimed worldwide that "the due time has approached". Why do they expect true Christians to ignore Jesus' words and follow them?

    : What is one way that we can keep in expectation of the end? It is by paying close attention to the evidence that the end is near. W 1/15/00 11, 12

    The above is completely contrary to Scripture. Jesus clearly stated, "Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming." (Matthew 24:42) In fact, "on this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming." (Matthew 24:44) Obviously, if Jesus' followers thought that "the end" was going to come at a specific time, then that time could not be "it". Therefore there is no way to interpret events so as to know, even slightly in advance, when "it" was even about to come. It follows that those who continually claim to know even the approximate time when "the Son of man is coming" cannot be Jesus' followers.

    Of course, we have a long history of JWs and other end-times proclaimers being wrong. They're wrong about the time frame, and they're wrong about the events they interpret as positive signs of "the end". Most of them claim that Matthew 24, 25, Mark 13 and Luke 21 contain prophecies about events that allow "faithful ones" to figure out when "the end" is just about to arrive. They claim that these passages say that when war, famine, pestilence, earthquakes and other big nasties reach unusual proportions, that "the end" is just about to come. However, they're wrong about their interpretations, and they're wrong about their claims that today such events are unusually common. A careful reading of these passages shows that the writers were saying exactly the opposite of what these interpreters claim -- that such events were so common in human history that they should not be interpreted as signs of anything. And of course, a careful examination of events of the 20th century proves that war kills about the same number on average as they always have, that famine and pestilence are down dramatically, and that earthquakes kill about four times fewer on average than they did a few hundred years ago.

    AlanF

  • seven006
    seven006

    YoYo,

    I hate doing the cut and paste thing but to take you back to the "thought" you were trying to get across here is a little cut and paste just for you. You did not exactly say in those exact words that you were accountable to Jesus, sorry for not memorizing your exact words. What I was trying to say is that you sperate what you re told "not" to do by the leaders of your religion by playing your Jesus card. If you did not do that and did not try and side step the issue of posting here then what "exactly" did you try and say by this statement?

    exact quote from YoYo Mama via cut and paste:

    A. I am aware that the WTBTS discourages its members from sites like this one. My master is Jesus Christ.

    This statement was made in the thread "for yoyo mama" stated by moman. Here is moman asking you the question and here is where you played your Jesus card in an attempt to justify your posting here.

    for yoyo Mama
    moma:
    YoYO, I am aware that you have been asked this question before, but why are you posting on an APOSTATE board?....Which iz it:
    A) You were unaware that your MASTERS forbid it?

    A. I am aware that the WTBTS discourages its members from sites like this one. My master is Jesus Christ.
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18106&site=3

    Now that I have done the cut and paste game that I hate to do and I have absolutely quoted you exactly what are you trying to say in your answer? Remember, we're not stupid, that thought will help you in your answer.

    Take care,

    Dave

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