Hypothetical Question for Christians (page 2)

Narkissos

Sad Emo,

I remember writing a small poem on a similar topic very shortly after I left JWs (I lost it and can only recall -- or reinvent? -- a few lines). It was about judgement -- mine. It was both dreamlike and painful to write.

No clothes to hide my flesh
No flesh to hide my soul
No words to hide my mindOf course I always knew

My 'reply' went about this way:

Whose torment is it but yours?
Who is cast away but yourself?
Can't you rid yourself of me?

I looked up: I was wearing a white robe
And I heard a voice saying: "My son!"

Memories from eternity... :)

Sad emo

Well, if God is God in your little game and he says: "You're hellbound". I'm hellbound.

Not a little game at all Deputy - it is actually a very serious and big question I'm asking. Perhaps you could use some extra warmth for that cold, cynical heart of yours.

Okay I'll get to the point of my questioning, a very basic one.

Why do Christians love, worship and serve God? Is it for the 'fire insurance' or just because He is God?

The fact is that although its not likely to happen because it would be against His very nature, God could still send someone to Hell if He wanted to because - as you wrote - He is God. So if a Christian was only such for the fire insurance, they might be very disappointed.

And as for me - I love, worship and serve God because He is God. I do put my faith in Christ's sacrifice - but if God chose not to cover me, I'd go to Hell still desiring to love, worship and serve Him as best I could.

Was that 'little game' enough for you?

Sad emo

Narkissos

Those words are beautiful.

I found them frightening and comforting at the same time! They're giving me a lot to think about.

Thank you for sharing them

OnTheWayOut

And as for me - I love, worship and serve God because He is God. I do put my faith in Christ's sacrifice - but if God chose not to cover me, I'd go to Hell still desiring to love, worship and serve Him as best I could.

You know how some people love their family despite whatever their family does? It's okay for you to love God like family like that.
But as far as worship and service to Him no matter what, that's stuff that He has to earn. You might say the ransom gives Him that earned part, but your statements here say it's okay to take it away. Good luck with that.

Deputy Dog

Sad emo

Sorry if this offends. You may want to rethink this.

And as for me - I love, worship and serve God because He is God. I do put my faith in Christ's sacrifice - but if God chose not to cover me, I'd go to Hell still desiring to love, worship and serve Him as best I could.

Don't be so impressed with yourself. You seem to have forgotten what can happen when someone brags about his love for God.

Mat 26:33

Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended. 34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

Mat 26:74Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. 75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Without God's love and grace you wouldn't have much to boast about.

Let me ask you a "hypothetical question" Would you love God if He felt the same way about you, that He felt about Esau? Romans 9:13

Rev 16:21

And huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, *came down from heaven upon men; and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, because its plague *was extremely severe.

Hell will be worse!

And as for me - I love, worship and serve God because He loved me first and gave me the gift of faith.

Was that 'little game' enough for you?

For me? It's not a game.

Sad emo

You know how some people love their family despite whatever their family does? It's okay for you to love God like family like that.

But as far as worship and service to Him no matter what, that's stuff that He has to earn. You might say the ransom gives Him that earned part, but your statements here say it's okay to

take it away. Good luck with that.

Thanks for your reply OTWO. My view is that God doesn't have to earn anything - I suppose I could say that because He created me and gave me life and a beautiful world to inhabit, that is a gift enough in itself.

It does frighten me to think that God could do whatever He wants - but I have faith enough (most of the time) to know that He wouldn't do such a thing as take away salvation - as I said in an earlier post, that would be against His very nature.

Deputy, I'm not impressed with myself or boasting as you presume. This is the way I feel at the deepest level. I don't think it is anything to boast about.

Would you love God if He felt the same way about you, that He felt about Esau?

Yes I would. All you've done is apply my original question to a different case.

"Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him"

Narkissos

I also find Saint Francis de Sales' response to the obsession of damnation (biographically influenced in his case by the struggle of Catholic and Calvinist theologies) remarkably deep: "Whatever happens, Lord, may I at least love you in this life if I cannot love you in eternity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorare

Btw judgement may be a game, a role play specifically, that some have to play seriously with themselves at some point.

Narkissos

Afterthought on "Final Judgement RPG" : "if we judged ourselves, we would not be judged" (1 Corinthians 11:31) doesn't quite match "do not judge, so that you may not be judged" (Matthew 7:1) -- if I had to pick just one, I'd certainly pick the latter -- but both resonate (or dissonate) together in a very interesting manner.

Deputy Dog

Sad emo

You're so wonderful! You don't even need God's Spirit do you?

This is the way I feel at the deepest level.

It's not the level of your feeling that I question, but the source.

The premise for your question suggests boasting.

You've lived a good, sincere Christian life and put full faith in Christ's sacrifice etc.

Then, no grace.

And God says "You're hellbound"

It seems you nullified the grace of God.

The whole reason He came, was to redeem you.

In your "Hypothetical Question", Was this "life" ("good, sincere Christian life") as a result of your effort or God's? Who gets the glory for your life? You or God? What happenned to:

Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

What's the purpose of your question? To glorify the depth of your devotion, or God's grace?

Sad emo

DD, you're just trying to read more into my opening post than is there. I asked a hypothetical question ie it wasn't intended to nullify anything at all which both you and I know to be true of God's nature:

–adjective

1.	assumed by hypothesis; supposed: a hypothetical case.

2.	of, pertaining to, involving, or characterized by hypothesis: hypothetical reasoning.

3.	given to making hypotheses.

4.

Logic .

a.	(of a proposition) highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence.

b.	(of a proposition or syllogism) conditional.

As it stands, you seem unable to address the question without nitpicking and making sweeping judgements about my faith, attitudes and motives - which from a fellow Christian I find truly saddening. At least the atheists who replied in semi-jest to this thread mocked the question, not the poster.

"If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!"

Hypothetical Question for Christians

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