by Celestialfrontier 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Janey214

    CelestialFrontier - what other faiths (even non-Christian ones) have you actually looked at?

    I'm in the process of studying a variety of different religions and it would seem to me that what you've indicated in this topic as being solely what the JW's are doing, well that there are other groups that do just those things :-)

  • yknot

    Celestial F.....

    Yes, JWs are not suppose to question above their holy spirit appointed Elders.

    Yes, the Bible says Jesus is the mediator between men and God

    Yes, the JWs don't currently believe this is a clear interpretation, rather that only the those of the 144,000 referred to as the anointed are mediated by Jesus. The rest of the Great Crowd is only saved through faithful association (read obeying in entirety anything the anointed's Governing Body dictates) with the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class and it's Governing Body (FDS, GB). This schism occurred under Judge Joseph Rutherford in the 1930's and is paramount to maintaining control by a the current rulers (GB) of the JWs. In fact the rest of the 'Slave Class' has pretty much been castrasted from any power with the admonishment that 'true anointed' never question the GB either!

    Again unless a baptized or recognized unbaptized publisher accepts fully without question these 'bible truths' as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses (ie the GB) they are apostates according to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

    So here is some advice, You are not a good candidate to become a JW....... consider finding local spiritual association elsewhere. If you like the Arian slant then consider the "Bible Students" (Russell's original group before Rutherford took over) or any Baptist sect as they are not limited by the Nicene creed.

  • Heaven

    CF said: This is my mediator:

    "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    CF.... you won't last long as a JW. The GB is their mediator. You can't go to God and Christ without them.

    CF said: However, I feel sad that the majority of "true christians" are not out evangelizing, like the JW's DO (EXCEPT THAT THEIR GOSPEL IS "ANOTHER GOSPEL)

    Why? Jesus Christ did not go door to door. Most of the time, people came to him. He only went to people's houses when they invited him. Also, the Bible states not every one is to be a master, teacher, preacher, etc. If everyone did this, no one would be feeding us, healing us, teaching our children, building our homes, etc., etc., etc. THINK about what you are saying.


    It has been perverted and complicated because the JWs/WTS is a cult and they wish to control. They may not have started out this way, but that's what they are now. Run for the exits.

  • Perry

    The 144,000 doctrine is simply the WT's means of destroying the New Covenant since they deny access to it by all others. There are many things that Christians can disagree about and not jeopardize their contract with God. This is not one of them. I mean if you have no contract (covenant or testament) with God then you will be judgeded at the Great White Throne plain and simple. If God did not judge, that would in fact make him evil.

    Further, since there 'is no one righteous, no not one", then the verdict at that trial can only be guilty. Even the WT agrees that only those inside the New Covenant are declared righteous.

    The WT teaches that the New Covenant is limited to the 144,000 Jews of Revelation. This

    effectively leaves people without any recourse with God on Judgment Day. The dots can be connected like this:

    Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood , the forgiveness of sins , according to the riches of his grace ;
    Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood , even the forgiveness of sins :

    So forgiveness is in the shed blood. However access to the blood is only through the New Covenant:

    Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment , suppose ye , shall he be thought worthy , who... hath counted the blood of the covenant , wherewith he was sanctified , an unholy thing , and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace ?

    The word "despite" means to insult in the Greek. When JW's reject the New Covenant it is definitely insulting to the spirit of grace SINCE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CANNOT PROVIDE NOT EVEN ONE SCRIPTURE TO SHOW HOW THEIR SINS ARE FORGIVEN OUTSIDE OF THE NEW COVENANT. It simply doesn't exist because the New Covenant is the legal instrument by which we are declared righteous while yet sinners.

  • villabolo

    Celestial Frontier, I'll try to make this explanation of the 144,000 Jehovah's Witness doctrine as brief as possible. I apologize if somebody else brought it up because I have not had time to read the whole thread.

    The JW founder, Charles Russell, had what I would call a doctrine of spiritual aristocracy. In his worldview there were four categories of humanity that would make it into the millenium, one superior to the other. Two of those 'classes' were to abide in Heaven and the two others on a paradise Earth. The first class was the 144,000 who would rule over the Earth. They were to be assisted by the Great Multitude who were considered spiritually inferior to the 144,000 but still worthy of the 'Heavenly hope'. I could go on about the Earthly 'classes' but I think you get the picture. This belief was held a hundred years ago by the JWs.

    Later on the second president of the JWs simplified this class distinction of saved humanity into two groups. The 144,000 in heaven ruling the Great Multitude ('Crowd' in their NWT of the Bible) on Earth. The same inferiority/superiority distinction remains.

    By the way welcome to the forum.


  • QuestForThruth

    As always the Apostasy come with this TABOO subject

    All people in this religion have different opinions about that and can`t talk openly,they all say thats it`s not important when we want a respond but the/their most important day of the year(memorial) is all about that...

    I have read entierely the book of Revelation(Red book TJ) before a memorial and this book talk more about "human comprehension" that the bible itself and I can't go with their version of saint/anointed/144k.

    When I have talked about that with some before the memo,I have seen that even them are not sure about that.

    It was the last time we have see me in a Kingdom Hall.

    After that 1914 come like all the other "apostate" and finally the chronology were all religion are in a debate.

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