Why is it that JWs can toss around insults like "Worldly" when talking about non-JWs? (Fiancee got offended).

by SnakesInTheTower 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • SnakesInTheTower

    So yesterday I get this telephone call from a JW sister. Let's call her Sister Naive. I knew Sister Naive when she was a teenager, knew her ex-husband when he and I were growing up in the congo. Sister Naive is in her early/mid-30s. Sister Naive calls me to "encourage" me. (I had ignored her previous voice mail a few weeks ago). We know what that means...Sister Naive is prying her nosy self into my business (that and she is bored because she only works a PT grocery job and auxiliary pioneering instead of using her degree to get a FT job. ..She got especially nosy when I informed her I was now engaged.... Sister Naive claimed not to know.... of course, her human part of her mind is in conflict with her JW-cult part of her mind......

    On the one hand, Sister Naive claimed to be "happy" for me; on the other, I was not marrying in the Truth™. We talked about 15 minutes and I was polite but otherwise non-committal. I wasn't hiding anything, neither was I in a sharing kind of mood. We had a general chat, I let her get her "encouragement" off her mind, and figured that would be the last I heard from her. No such luck.

    Sister Naive calls me back again this morning. She just "had to say something." That something was how much it bothered her that I was marrying a "Worldly™" girl instead of a JW. I reminded her, again, that I had not been to a KH for 2 years. (Her response the day before was "I am very sorry to hear that.") Today, she was very judgemental as the JW-cult infected part of her mind kicked back in and she had 24 hours to mull over the previous day's telephone conversation. I asked her if it would have been fair to a JW gal (that was interested in me back in 2006 after my break up and right before I started my fade) for me to accept her offer to date when I was not a "strong JW elder" anymore. She agreed but stated I should come back and get Spiritually Strong™ again. I threw it back in her face by reminding her that she married a JW brother that turned out to be a ghetto thug who cheated on her and left her with 2 kids to raise on her own. Snap. I wasn't rude, just wasn't taking her insulting my fiancee. I ended that conversation pretty quick (within 2 minutes) after her "Worldly™" comment.

    Forward to this evening. My fiancee was at the house and we were sharing the events of the day. We hide nothing from each other. A) I have no reason to hide anything and B) she can always tell if something is bothering me. Same for me when it comes to her. So I tell her about today's second phone call. I could tell a sudden shift in mood and body language. Of course, my beautiful fiancee was offended....she knows the implications of being called Worldly™ by a JW. It is an insult, and not a very well-veiled one at that. It took over an hour of discussion to get past this incident. She thought I should have responded more directly to the insult. She also realized that I handle things a bit differently. I did defend my gal's honor by throwing crap back into Sister Naive's face and ending the conversation quickly.

    At one point, my fiancee suggested I change my home phone number. I am not going to do this for a couple of reasons. I have had this number for 12 years, my parents had this number for at least a decade before that. I do not get a lot of robocalls from telemarketers or bill collectors because I have what is known as a "clean number"...(a number that has not been issued by the phone company to anyone else). If I changed numbers, I would get whatever crap calls that the previous owner(s) were getting.

    More importantly, my fiancee always talks about not letting the JWs control my life yet, wouldn't changing my phone number be allowing just that? Thankfully, my fiancee is a reasonable woman and seen the logic of that. I promised her that I would react in a stronger, more direct manner the next time any JW made such a comment to me.

    Maybe I shouldn't have shared the phone conversation with my fiancee. But why should I hide (as if I could) anything from her? We share everything, it's how we find out what bothers the other person...LOL I digress.....Our evening ended on a much better note after we talked it out, but really, why is it that Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any concept of personal boundaries? Why is it that JWs (including myself when I was a dub, as my fiancee pointed out) feel that they can say whatever they wish?

    BTW, my fiancee and her son are moving into my house this weekend. I told her that she should answer the door in a robe if they ever knock on our door. I won't repeat what she said in response; let's just say that she is even more twisted in her ideas than I. LOL

    Snakes (Rich )

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    I would have thought that being described as 'worldly' by a member of a crazy doomsday cult would be a complement.

    It means that you are not like them. That is something to celebrate.



  • Scully

    JWs toss around those "insults" because to them they are simply adjectives to describe a person's status with respect to the WTS and JWs, or a type of behaviour that is not approved by the WTS and/or JWs.

    One of my favorite apostates, Kent Steinhaug, liked to use the term "braindead morons" to describe certain JWs. Not an insult, just a statement of fact in many cases. But JWs find it insulting and offensive. Maybe use a pejorative term to describe JWs and use it with Sister Naive, and when she objects you can say "Well, if you can find an adjective to describe my fiancée that isn't so insulting to her, I'll try hard to find a less offensive word to describe JWs."

    The other thing you can say might be along the lines of "My fiancée is extremely Stumbled™ by the way you refer to her as being Worldly™. She'll never want anything to do with the Witnesses if you continue insulting her like that."

  • purplesofa

    I think you will soon learn it's ok to keep some things to yourself in a relationship.

    Not because you are being sneaky or that your mate won't or can't understand,

    it's like saying the buck stops here,

    Let your drama stay with you,

    and soon you won't give people a chance to offend your loved ones,

    you will find talking to them less and less an obligation.

    it's just not worth the drama.


  • SnakesInTheTower

    Black Sheep:

    I would have thought that being described as 'worldly' by a member of a crazy doomsday cult would be a complement. It means that you are not like them. That is something to celebrate.

    Agreed. I told my fiancee that I am actually lower status than her in the eyes of JWs. I was an Elder™ and MTS grad..I should know better than go down this path I have taken.... In the world of JWs, an ex-JW is lower than a Worldly Person™. If they only knew I was actually an Apostate™ they would surely $hit their britches...

    It is taking some work to convince my beautiful gal that I am truly done with the dubs. Yet, she doesn't want me to take the nuclear option (ie, writing a DA letter)..doesn't consider it to be necessary.

    Snakes (Rich )

  • yknot

    ..... Because we are each others "Brothers & Sisters"..... and siblings have no boundaries (esp immature ones)

    Because we have a cult-induced sense of regulating both self (mentally) and others through peer pressure when faced with non-WTS approved messages (which is what she was doing after hearing of your 'falling away' and recent engagement).

    She figures it is worth a shot in the dark to guilt you some because if you did come back it would be a feather in her theocratic resume. She also sounds like she is a bit 'resentful' because working the angle of bringing your beloved back with you would have sounded way more sincere and compassionate.

  • flipper

    SNAKES- I agree with Purple Sofa here. You don't have to feel obligated to share ANY intimate details with former Jehovah's Witness aquaintances . They will only use that info to try prying deeper into your situation to dig up any dirt they can on you for a prospective JC. Even just the rank and file publishers like the lady you talked with- she knows she will get brownie points for finding out info on you ; and /or trying to " encourage " you to come back. ( Which is really done just to be nosy as you stated ). I don't trust JW's as far as I can spit. And that includes some of my JW siblings who would rat me out at the drop of a dime if they knew what I was REALLY up to. So be careful. Don't trust JW's . It's not worth it. Especially since you have a great lady now . Don't risk losing that

  • SnakesInTheTower

    purps and flipper...

    I think you will soon learn it's ok to keep some things to yourself in a relationship.

    Agreed. Though it is tough when my fiancee already reads me pretty well. Hard to hide shield much from her.

    The last couple of weeks and this week are always tough on me and emotionally I do not put up barriers as well as I usually do. My dad died Labor Day in 1994. About mid-August until Labor Day I get in a funk and am especially vulnerable to the antics of former JW friends.

    So while maybe I should have just kept that little conversation to myself, it wore on me and Toni called me on it. I couldn't come up with an alternate reason for the additional bad mood. In the end, she and I had a very productive conversation over it.

    Did I say I am damn lucky to have this gal in my life? I don't want to take that for granted.

    Snakes (Rich )

  • nelly136

    She just "had to say something." That something was how much it bothered her that I was marrying a "Worldly™" girl instead of a JW.

    does 'sister naive' have a good jw wife in mind per chance?

    changing a number can be inconvinient, how about caller display so you can choose whether you want to answer a call.

  • sweetface2233

    First off, Snakes, congrats on your engagement.

    Secondly, I want to thank your fiancee for pointing out that how you (and every other XJW on earth) are being treated now is exactly the way that you (and we) were treating other people. Many, many, many XJWs get so caught up in their bitterness that they tend to forget that they were, in fact, as bad if not worse than many JWs today. Thank you, Snakes' fiancee!

    Lastly, what purps said! :-)

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