Cantleave's latest update

by cantleave 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • cantleave

    OK, I couldn't let it lie. I showed my wife some of the Scientific Inaccuracies made by the WTS over the years . My wife was concerned that I have been reading Apostate literature. I assured her I wasn't but I was researching everthing on the net. Her response was that In the same way I am treating the WTS statements with cynacism, so should be with what I read on the internet. She told me that she too knows that some teachings are barmey, but she wants our kids to have a hope and at the moment the Paradise is a hope that they can understand.

    I told her that I don't have a problem with that, as long as they are not taught to Demonise other beliefs, including those of Agnostics and Atheist. Her response was what ever they decide to do in the future will be their choice. So I pushed it a little further. I don't want them to curtail associations with school friends or miss out on extra-curricular activities that may interest them. No problem, she didn't have an issue with that.

    So I put another scenario to her. If our kids decide that they don't want to attend meetings, when they get older, what your response be? "That would be their choice - I would support them"

    OK, that's positive, lets push it to the limit. If one our kids needed a blood transfusion - what then?

    "if there is no other option, if their lives were at risk, I would not put there lives ahead of a religious principle"

    Wow! I was not expecting that. So where do you draw line?

    "I don't believe everthing, but I do believe the general morals taught are right."

    She also indicated that she felt the general principles found in the bible are a good basis for our children's moral education.

    I then asked what do you think Christ saw in 1919 when he came to inspect his belongings? After a little bit of elaboration of my question, she could see where I was coming from.

    Her answer wasd " at least they were willing to change, which is more than other religions".

    Not really what I wanted to hear so I tried another line of questioning.

    I asked about last Sunday's Watchtower. "Not every single member is ever going to be consulted in any organisation. The authority the GB claims to have, places an awesome responsibility on them before God. If they excercise it in a dictatorial, unloving way, they will have answer to him". Well I couldn't dispute that so I asked whether we have a right to question what they say? "What direction we choose to follow and what we choose to ignore places a personal responsibility on each of us too. If we are uncomfortable with something we should follow our conscience, and like the GB we have to account for our actions before Jehovah"

    She pointed out that as a couple, we have never slavishly followed all the directions of the GB, and have never let them interfere with our personal lives (this is true, 21 years of happy marriage, means we have never followed the bedroom laws as laid down by the Wtachtower).

    I then told her I will be resigning as an Elder, "Neither of us wanted or expected a position, if feel that your place on the BOE is untennable, then that's what you must do. It would free up time that we could use on other pursuits"

    I finished up by stating that she sees things very similarly to me. Her answer was that we will lose a lot if we left (it's almost as if she has read my posts on JWN). One thing she mentioned was that an inheritance from my mother that would go straight to the WTS if we left the troof, (my mother owns quite a few properties, and really would write us and our kids out if we got DF'd or DA'd).

    In summary I now know that my wife feels the same way about alot of things as I do. She wants to stay in the organisation though, primarily because of family ties and friendships (and the thought of losing an inheritance - isn't that little avaricious?), but also because she doesn't like the alternative religions. Interestingly, since I have been missing more meetings so is she, and in retrospect she missed loads when the kids were little, was she using them as an excuse?

    What I haven't told her yet is I am begining to lose faith in a God, and do not think the bible is inspired. She is still very much a believer in both.

    I need to get a copy of Steve Hassan's book and get her to read that. She won't read anything that smacks of apostacy but will read an unbiased academic book.

    I don't expect this to be of much interest to anyone else, but writing helps me clarify my thoughts and gives me an opportunity to analyse what appears to be my wife's contradictory statements and thoughts.

    Any comments would be welcome.

  • leavingwt


    I wouldn't want you to lose your rightful inheritance, because of WT dogma.

  • darkl1ght3r

    Cantleave, yes your story is interesting. To me, in particular because your situation mirrors mine exactly 1 year ago. But I can tell things are going much better in your situation than they were in mine, so hang in there!!! Just be true and honest with yourself and her!

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    cantleave - very interesting discussion. I think it's great that you and your wife have such open communication. I can't really offer any meaningful comments since I'm too much of a sissy to have the big conversation with my wife (although I've made comments over time and she knows I don't really believe it anymore).

    I will say that you will find it a relief to get off the BOE. Just that alone improved my attitude quite a bit! Good luck

  • inbetween

    very interesting, will try a similar thing with my wife soon, fortunately she is not a die-hard witness, however, born in, she really knows nothing me in fact...

    oh, cantleave, you have a pm...

  • wobble

    I have left, I am not DF'd or DA'd at present, I stand to lose a considerable inheritance too , if they decide to re-write ther Wills, but I shall continue to be true to myself, I make no bones about my TOTAL disbelief in the WT being anything to do with God.

    Jeez, I could really do with the money too !

    Whatever happens, I am happier with a clear conscience , and being away from the WT !



    ps Good news that was Cantleave, your Wife sounds like a real level -headed thinker, and they don't stay trapped in the Borg !

  • boyzone

    Hi Cantleave

    I found these 2 comments of your wife's interesting..

    "I don't believe everthing, but I do believe the general morals taught are right."
    She also indicated that she felt the general principles found in the bible are a good basis for our children's moral education

    By saying this, your wife is actually agreeing with christians in the churches, christians who live by bible principles and bring up their children by them.

    The difference is that christians in church aren't obliged to keep their disagreements quiet for fear of being disfellowshipped for apostasy. Neither are they obliged to follow a myriad of rules that have been added as a prerequisite for salvation.

    This is the difference between bringing your children up as christians and bringing your children up as Jehovahs Witnesses.

    To give my children the freedom to explore their faith and beliefs without fear of retribution or exclusion, and to let them develop their full potential as free individuals is worth any monetary inheritance.

  • Farkel

    Money can always be replaced. You can't replace a life wasted in the service of people who only want you to waste it for you can do for them.


  • cantleave

    Boyzone, very good point you make. It'll take a while for the WTS view of christendom to be eroded, so I can't see her investigating what other christain churches state and what morals they live by.

    Farkel, as always straight to the point. I would agree with you entirely except I had saved my pension with a company called Equitable Life, If you live in the UK you will know what that means, basically I have no pension so the assets that my mother has (which BTW I helped manage on her behalf) will provide an income in our retirement.

  • boyzone

    Hi Cantleave

    Yes I understand how your wife feels about the church and I'm not suggesting you both leave and join the local evangelical. But the difference is You don't have to be a fully paid up member of a church or a member of the Watchtower Society to live by bible principles. If you have a bible and believe its moral lessons are correct and worth following, then thats all you need.

    The scriptures say that Jesus would send a helper, the holy spirit to guide you, and if you'd like encouraging association, its there. The rest comes down to one principle that encompasses all the gospels, and thats LOVE. If its the loving thing to do, do it. All the rest is just optional. I can't think of a better principle to teach your children.

    Yep, I also get you about Equitable Life! Sorry to hear your savings have gone down the pan. I figure you'll have to tread pretty carefully and stay on the right side of this relative.

    Sorry to put this so indelicately...but is this inheritance on the cards soon? (sorry)

    Its just that to forsee years and years of wasted time and opportunity for you and your kids slaving for 9 men in Brooklyn so you can retire comfortable seems tragic.

    . I guess only you know the best way to handle your situation and I really understand its not in an easy place you're in, but whatever your approach..good luck with it.

Share this