by bluecanary 45 Replies latest watchtower bible
"The Watchtower Society has admitted to making numerous mistakes. Why is that disagreeing with doctrines that may turn out to be mistakes, is considered apostasy? If someone is disfellowshipped for disagreeing with a doctrine that the Watchtower Society later abandons, is that person automatically forgiven? Who is accountable for the propagation of false teachings?"
That is very important might I add!
What excellent points on the validity of these questions, VoidEater. Thank you for posting that.
Thanks for this thread, bluecanary, and all the work! I'm sure I will be using this material when it becomes necessary (I have found that it's better not to debate with my JW relatives, but sometimes they stupidly force me into a corner and won't let me drop it, until they don't have a counterargument for my logical point of view, in which case they hang up on me and shun me for a while - those crazy JW's!).
Rachel
Thank you Blue Canary for all the time and effort you spent putting this together for us.
Hopscotch
Hey,
We have been out for over sixteen years and the "Borg" has still left its marks on us. Unfortunately we seem to be a "worst case scenario"when it comes to manipulation and control and emotional abuse when we were children. I honestly seems you have a ton on your plate in regards to just coping with your marriage breakup and seperation issues with your children let alone loosing all our so called friends.
To be part of a group therapy or discussion group is really important. I was in therapy for over six months with a psychiatrist just to be able to leave and still be a whole person intact without the guilt and emotional turmoil most experience so you have to do the work!
So make time for yourself to just chill and settle a bit, take a deep breath and enjoy that freeness of mind and heart you are beginning to enjoy. Remember it takes balls to leave and make changes in your life, it takes strength of character to say " Hey man I am outta here and I'm not going to sell out any more ever!"
Your kids are so fotunate to have a force in their lives that will eventually be able to really show UNCONDITIONAL love to them. Unconditional love was never part of the equation in our lives was it. Not ever worrying or jerking our kids around because of some stupid comment or observation an elder makes only to have a clone family out in public yet all messed up behind doors.
Get some Regge music going and get happy its only going to get better.
Bookmarking.
bluecanary, thank you for your input, I've just re-read this and I've marked it for later use. Great thread.
Etna
This post has been added to my Favorites Center.
Good work, a well researched and documented set of posts,
Paul
I personally have found you can't fight a mud wrestler by jumping into the mud and grabbing at the champ.
First off, it is futile.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't get bested in a one-on-one because they won't engage you unless you accept their fundamental premise.
What is the fundamental premise? That the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God.
Once you stipulate that's okay by you---you're toast!
Why?
Everything which logically follows is INTERPRETATION.
You may as well try beating a Pokeman master by sending your Charazard against the JW's.
You CANNOT ACCEPT THEIR PREMISE!
It is a matter of indisputable fact that NO ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPH MANUSCRIPT OF SCRIPTURE EXISTS.
Nobody can deny this one point. The best that can be done is to try and convince you Jehovah "must have preserved" such and such...
That is a blind assertion.
Either Jehovah preserved or He did not preserve uncorrupt scripture.
The only thing that follows that admission and realization is this: IF JEHOVAH DID NOT SEE FIT TO PRESERVE (and He didn't) original, uncorrupt, autograph scripture---then all we have is unoriginal, corrupt, fraudulent writings PRETENDING to be genuine originals.
Got that?
When you look at the fragments of the earliest remaining bits and pieces of third generation writings (purported to be copies) NONE OF THEM MATCH each other.
What does that mean?
IT MEANS Jehovah did NOT see fit to PRESERVE an uncorrupt scriptural message!
What is the difference between a corrupt scripture and an uncorrupt scripture?
Answer: A clear starting point from which factual interpretations can be drawn!
Example: All JW's parrot what the Society says about how the death of the apostles ushered in a period of apostacy in the church. (Hint: they are talking about the Catholic Church). This is where the Watcthtower tells us various corrupt teachings got mixed in with pure worship.
The Church (under the aegis of Emperor Constantine) sought to eliminate discord and false teaching by convoking the Nicene Council.
The Watchtower Society points to the results of this council as the solidification of False Religious corruption in Christianity.
But, this SAME AUTHORITY produced the bible!
That bible consisted of 73 books. It was the ONLY christian bible until Martin Luther tore 7 books away and wanted to destroy more.
The PROTESTANT bible simply had fewer books (the rest were eventually marginalised and removed) in it and none of them matched exactly any array of latter-day manuscripts.
So what?
So, the premise of Jehovah's Witnesses that they alone have PURE WORSHIP is based on their interpretation of a corrupt fraudulent book purported to be PURE and INERRANT in truth and teaching. They pretend to be restorers of truth (and only gradually.....because of all their demonstrable errors in predicting the end!)
False premise in=False Conclusion out.
Fighting JW's by throwing scriptural interpretations against theirs is futile no matter how brilliantly reasoned.
When you fight JW's you are fighting the false-premise of their AUTHORITY TO INTERPRET THE BIBLE.
REMOVE the Bible (as an uncorrupt starting point for interpretation) and you remove their authority to control the worship of individuals and their direct access to God through Jesus.
The bible is a flawed manmade assembly of hearsay and cobbled Hebrew scripture.
That's my opinion.
Your mileage may vary.
