My Copy of 'I'm Perfect, You're Doomed' Arrived Today...

by brinjen 24 Replies latest jw friends

OnTheWayOut

I also sincerely think the book is going to do damage to the ex-JW cause.
Let's not go overboard. It's just a book that a handful of people (almost entirely not active JW's) will read.
Kyria's honesty about what happened is great. I do understand that if there were an agenda, she could have left some things out, but there wasn't an agenda (besides selling books).
I didn't read that Kyria blamed the JW's for everything- a bunch but not everything. I read that she was extremely ignorant in her world because of the JW's. She made plenty of mistakes from ignorance. It will read differently to different points of view. I don't see it as "Get out of the JW's and wind up doing drugs and having loose sex." I read it more like "Raise a child in the JW's and they will rebel."
Even though there's going to be some disagreements about what caused her problems, she told it as she saw it. It's her story. I thank her for telling it.
saywhat29

You're not mentioning the part where she confronts her father saying "you KNOW what you did". That is what I'm talking about, she knew she was full of it, yet she still accused her father of something the poor guy didn't do. He was a bit of a loser sure, he was certainly physically abusive, had a temper and most certainly wasn't a good father, he however was not a child molester. What do JWs say about the two witness rule and repressed memories? "They're often fake, and need to be corroborated by a second person", here's a literal example they can point to of a JW accusing an innocent person in print. So again, more harm than good.
I didn't mention it because it was the inner thoughts of a teenage girl wanting attention, unsure of herself and wanting to live out someone else's life in her head- and at that moment it was Lisa's. she didn't haul him into the elders or tell a teacher, or anything. she watched him while he was in his underwear eating a cheese curl and went up to him and said, "I know what you did" he blinked, she bliked, and it was over. She really didn't accuse him of anything as he didn't even know what he was being accused of. Hell, not even Lisa knew since she didn't tell her anything of the sort.
Again, she's telling this from the standpoint of a teenager so I think if a witness reads this and concludes thats why they have the 2nd witness rule, then they will read the rest of it and assume she never loved Jehovah, her family was weak in the faith, and thats why they all sufferred. Honestly, trying to play 'What will the wintesses' think is annoying because in their heads they win and you will lose as long as you are not one o them.
Doesn't it suck knowing you are this really great person, a person of faith for that matter, and they still will believe those things about you? Well as a person who gets accused as a sinner for loving a man when I know I'm fine, it *does* suck for some douchebag with a bible to somehow believe that they have some moral superiority over you and that you are trash because you don't follow your god.
You don't win or beat them by livgin a life that not even they could tarnish, but you live your life without a damn care in the world what they think. I'm not perfect- hell I posted two weeks ago how i was placed back under their thought system and felt like I never left even when I knew I had.
Rambling, sorry, but like I said with my first post, this book isnot about batin the Watchtower or about how some super awesome bible student feel and is now a rocking apostate. Its about a girl in a cult who had OCD with parents with faults and hell was fiulled with faults of her own. I haven't read the book you mentioned but I think Kyria's POV is important because it relates to a lot of people who weren't pious or holy or fully believed it; who had worldly family and friends that they were close to and loved and had to somehow find a balance between their beliefs and reality... who played horrible music and snuck and watched a 'bad' movie hear and there... who had crushes and lied a time ior two to go out with someone.
I relate a lot with the girl moreso than i could some person who fully bought it, was at Bethel for 1000 years, never questioned and never was tempted or felt guilty or different for their belief system.
SixofNine

There are many of us who have worked incredibly hard not to live up to those ridiculous stereotypes to show that the stereotypes are wrong.
Seems like a rather wrongheaded motivation imo, and still playing to the governing body to boot.
Some relevant points:
A) JW's do all those things they claim apostates do anyway, they just do them in "double life" mode.
B) Make no mistake, the "world" knows JW's aren't perfect anyway, nor does the "world" believe that what a JW claims is morally superior really is "the best way of life".
C) If a JW considers, even subconciously, leaving the org, they have plenty of good "worldly" examples to aspire to; no one's goal when leaving the Watchtower is to be an evil apostate, or even an apostate of any sort, for that matter. The goal is to be a happy person with beliefs that don't cause mental conflict.
AK - Jeff

Who is she? Is this writer a famous comic now? Just tuned into this thread, and wondered.
Jeff
Tuesday

Seems like a rather wrongheaded motivation imo, and still playing to the governing body to boot.
I figured if I was going to leave I would not be one of those people that the congregation talks about afterwards as a warning to the children who are still in the congregation. "Did you know that Tim left and now he parties with his new friends late nights on weekends, he's been seen drinking and making out with a girl?" "Did you know that Tim's girlfriend is pregnant, now his life is over, see what leaving the organization gets you." "Did you know Tim is smoking marijuana now, it's only a matter of time before he starts harder drugs, see what happens when you leave Jehovah?"
I'd rather have them say "Did you see Chuck joined the army, now he's going to kill people and worship his country, see what leaving Jehovah gets you?" and the kid respond with "Well didn't Tim leave Jehovah and he now has a house, a family, a good job, nice cars, he's wrestled around North America, met famous Wrestlers and actors, does charity work frequently, and is genuinely happy."
Playing to the Governing Body's rules is a bit of an overstretch, I just made sure I loved the woman I had sex with, avoided drugs and alchohol and those type of pitfalls. It really wasn't that hard, I followed the sensible advice and tossed out the ridiculous ones. I don't think that's something a person with comprehension couldn't do.
A) JW's do all those things they claim apostates do anyway, they just do them in "double life" mode.
Yup, so how much more damaging is it to have someone who is not a witness acting more christian than active JWs? It brings up the question of fairness on how God can destroy someone who's doing good in the world while saving a scumbag just because he's in an organization.
B) Make no mistake, the "world" knows JW's aren't perfect anyway, nor does the "world" believe that what a JW claims is morally superior really is "the best way of life".
That's great, unfortunately the witnesses do. Someone once posted on here the best thing you can do to help people leave the truth is to leave and lead a good life. That's what I did, that's what I took to heart.
C) If a JW considers, even subconciously, leaving the org, they have plenty of good "worldly" examples to aspire to; no one's goal when leaving the Watchtower is to be an evil apostate, or even an apostate of any sort, for that matter. The goal is to be a happy person with beliefs that don't cause mental conflict.
Yes but thanks to many stories on the internet AND in print they don't have many good ex-JW examples to aspire to. You don't think that would be a good thing to have? I agree with your goal.
Who is she? Is this writer a famous comic now? Just tuned into this thread, and wondered.
I think she does some comedy, I don't know of her being featured on Comedy Central or anything. I could be wrong, feel free to correct me and link it if I am. She's famous for writing a "humerous" ex-JW book in our community.
saywhat29

Did you see Chuck joined the army, now he's going to kill people and worship his country, see what leaving Jehovah gets you?" and the kid respond with "Well didn't Tim leave Jehovah and he now has a house, a family, a good job, nice cars, he's wrestled around North America, met famous Wrestlers and actors, does charity work frequently, and is genuinely happy."
I think you have well intentions and as a Christian yourself I see why you want not to be seen as just some person who rejected faith and turned his back entirely. However, I still believe you are just kinda of unrealistic about how Witnesses view those who left. You could cure cancer and be the bestest Christian ever but when you leave the fold, you are like that lukewarm water being spat out in their eyes.
They will tell themselves you aren't happy. "its just how he looks... he's not really happy inside. I can see it."
They will tell themselves you are wasting time doing charity work when you should be out preaching since Jehovah is going to fix all of those things, like that sad analogy of the guy cutting his neighbor's grass while his his is on fire, your pritoies are not straight, they'll wonder if you actually aren't straight, and they will wonder why you are involved in such violent activities and tell each other that your heart grew cold to the true god because of such things being inside of you. They will tell each other that you are weak and show them that even if you are a god person, even if you do good things, you are still not right in th eyes of Jehovah because if you were you wouldn't have left!
I think you somehow want to make peace with a religious system that really does not want to make peace with you. It wants you and if you don't want it it will damn you or demonize you. How you feel about Kyria's story and how it makes us look to these people will not matter because the story they have of you was made even before Kyra even left the Witnesses.
Tuesday

I think you have well intentions and as a Christian yourself I see why you want not to be seen as just some person who rejected faith and turned his back entirely. However, I still believe you are just kinda of unrealistic about how Witnesses view those who left. You could cure cancer and be the bestest Christian ever but when you leave the fold, you are like that lukewarm water being spat out in their eyes.
I appreciate the compliment, I'm not a christian though I'm an atheist.
They will tell themselves you aren't happy. "its just how he looks... he's not really happy inside. I can see it."
Oh yes, they'll tell themselves trying to convince themselves that I'm not really happy. But reality can be observed no matter how much you try to convince yourself something. I kept telling myself that the kids in school weren't having fun playing sports and I wouldn't make it as a pro baseball player anyway, but I had to observe reality as my mother drove their charters and dragged me along. You can tell real happiness from something being put on.
They will tell themselves you are wasting time doing charity work when you should be out preaching since Jehovah is going to fix all of those things, like that sad analogy of the guy cutting his neighbor's grass while his his is on fire, your pritoies are not straight, they'll wonder if you actually aren't straight, and they will wonder why you are involved in such violent activities and tell each other that your heart grew cold to the true god because of such things being inside of you. They will tell each other that you are weak and show them that even if you are a god person, even if you do good things, you are still not right in th eyes of Jehovah because if you were you wouldn't have left!
They'll say it's a waste of time doing charity work but inside will admire me for it. Regardless of how JWs say what a waste charity work is they will never condemn someone for doing it, they never say the Shriner's are wasting their time. If they don't know that professional wrestling is fake then I doubt very highly they have the intelligence to go outdoors without supervision. Every person from my congregation that has left after me has told me that most of the congregation understood why I left as there was a big scandal in the congregation at the time of my departure. Some have actually told me that the way I left being dignified, simply going to college and landing good paying jobs really effected them. Regardless of whether your child is a witness or not parents brag about their children and what they do, they got to hear all about my trips to Alaska and Mexico, the charity work I do, etc. Falling into that stereotypical trap wouldn't just hurt me, but since every other child in the congregation that left before me fell into that trap, if I did too it would've hurt every child in that congregation after me. I may not care to see the congregation again ever in the history of my life, but I spent my first two decades there, I cared enough about them not to destroy everyone's hope of leading a normal life outside the organization.
I think you somehow want to make peace with a religious system that really does not want to make peace with you. It wants you and if you don't want it it will damn you or demonize you. How you feel about Kyria's story and how it makes us look to these people will not matter because the story they have of you was made even before Kyra even left the Witnesses.
There's a quote from Men In Black "Individuals are intelligent, people are stupid." That's kind of the way I feel in the situation, when they're together they may be saying "Oh that Tim living his life, living it up before he dies in armageddon. Wasting his time wrestling over the country, doing charity work, raising a daughter. I hope he makes use of it." Then on their own, when they read about the pitfalls of the system, or watch the district convention's stupid drama they can say to themselves "Tim got a good job and he never got involved in any of that stuff. This isn't the norm, this might be exaggerated a bit." The religion most certainly doesn't want to make peace with me, but the people most certainly do. That's the way I feel about it, I feel very strongly about the concept. There's actually a video on youtube from a Christian talking about Atheists winning the battle against Christianity and it's essentially the same way I feel ex-JWs should band together against JWs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyc2tHU4lIk
saywhat29

They'll say it's a waste of time doing charity work but inside will admire me for it. Regardless of how JWs say what a waste charity work is they will never condemn someone for doing it, they never say the Shriner's are wasting their time. If they don't know that professional wrestling is fake then I doubt very highly they have the intelligence to go outdoors without supervision. Every person from my congregation that has left after me has told me that most of the congregation understood why I left as there was a big scandal in the congregation at the time of my departure. Some have actually told me that the way I left being dignified, simply going to college and landing good paying jobs really effected them. Regardless of whether your child is a witness or not parents brag about their children and what they do, they got to hear all about my trips to Alaska and Mexico, the charity work I do, etc. Falling into that stereotypical trap wouldn't just hurt me, but since every other child in the congregation that left before me fell into that trap, if I did too it would've hurt every child in that congregation after me. I may not care to see the congregation again ever in the history of my life, but I spent my first two decades there, I cared enough about them not to destroy everyone's hope of leading a normal life outside the organization.
Hmm. This is always interesting since all of our experience in the faith are similiar but how soon we forget how vastly different they can be depending on the congregation we grew up in. I hear stories from people on this board and think how awful and crazy they are and then later stop and think if it were even possible for that to even happen at my congregation with the guys I know there and half the time, it doesn't equal the exact same experience.
Sorry, just rambling. I see your situation as relating to a particular group and growing up with that particular congregation and I see why you feel the way you feel. because in mine there isn't a 'Well you turned out pretty good for yourself' and that is what colors my experience. Most of the people I know who leave don't leave and move on, but fall away, do horrible stuff yet still believe its the truth hands down and are just as quick, if not quicker, to turn away from you for questioning the faith.
Question whether Brother/Sister So-and-So is the biggest douche ont he planet, sure... question how Brother AreyouSerious?! became an elder, sure, but question whether its Da Troof? No. So, I get what where you're coming from if you are having those experience but understand from those of us who don't and get what the author is getting at; those who do those sinful horrible things because those sinful horrible things are part of the human condition.
Tuesday

So, I get what where you're coming from if you are having those experience but understand from those of us who don't and get what the author is getting at; those who do those sinful horrible things because those sinful horrible things are part of the human condition.
Thanks, I understand the rebelling thing and doing all the things that you're told not to do. Personally I think it's the easy way out though. Also since I grew up two towns over from Kyria I feel I understand her congregation like my own, I was in touch with people from a bunch of different congregations in RI and they seemed very similar to mine.
I think the society wants their former members to get involved in drugs, promiscuous sex, get bunches of tattoos or some other body modification for shock factor, end up without a good job, living in squaller and most importantly after doing all this for the congregation to see shut the hell up about their expirience, whatever you do don't discuss doctrine, why you left, or talk to others regarding Jehovah's Witness doctrine and teachings. I think the most damaging thing you can do to the organization is the exact opposite, lead a good life and talk freely about your time as a JW and why you left, ESPECIALLY if it were for doctrinal reasons.
parakeet

Read it last week. It reads as if it was written by an immature, self-absorbed 15-year-old. Not funny at all.
If even half of her alleged escapades are true, she's one messed-up woman.
The title should be "I wrote this. You're doomed."

My Copy of 'I'm Perfect, You're Doomed' Arrived Today...

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