Do I have to have been baptised to be apostate? New to forum.

by artemis.design 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  JWdaughter

  As a non-baptised apostate, they can shun you for whatever they want to, and if give them any guff about their beloved organization, they will shun you. See, "you know the truth". They can put up with ambivalence,but not outright speaking out against it. give them the opportunity to question you about why you don't believe it. Tell them you would like to have a really frank discussion with them, but you are not willing to be shunned as an apostate for your views and would rather keep your family. That gives them an opportunity to declare that it is either a good idea to leave it at that, or they can say "be honest, we promise we won't shun you".

  If you feel the need to say something, keep to some problem you have with their interpretation of the bible. NOT an attack on petty personal issues that they like to think everyone leaves for. That just gives them another mental cop out to responding in a real way to anything you say.
• 

  bluecanary

  Tell them you would like to have a really frank discussion with them, but you are not willing to be shunned as an apostate for your views and would rather keep your family.

  That's so crazy, it just might work.
• 

  artemis.design

  Hi there

  Everone has made some really valid points, so thanks for that. I can tell I will be speaking to a lot more people on here, it is quite comforting. I did not realise there were so many ex witnesses!!

  Basically the guidance seems to be to use their own literature and the bible and let that do the talking. And not go in too hard. Trouble is, I left over 10 years ago as a teenager. It all seems to have changed so I don't even know what they believe in anymore. I remember "those that have seen the beginning will also see the end" being drilled into me, but apparently that is not "current thinking".

  So now I have the problem that I don't really know what they believe in, and secondly, and am not that familiar with the bible.

  I was going to try and stick to something that I do know about, such the history of human migration, cavemen, evidence that modern humans are many tens of thousand years and have very primative origins (not going into evolution at all as I am not sure where I stand on that myself). But I am stuck before I start because I know they will not watch the tv programmes and all the evidence will be ignored. I don't know enough about how they worked out that we have only been around for 6000 years, or even if that is still current thinking. My knowledge on the scriptures is very limited.

  It is not my intention to make a personal attack. If they wanted to believe in the spagetti monster or a teacup orbiting the earth, all good to them. But they don't just leave me to my life, I am living in sin as I am not married, I am going to die in the end of the world, and they are not interested in anthing I have to say about anything that interests me. When I go to visit, its like, what can we talk about today, the weather? Not only that, when I do go to visit, they still carry on with with their theocratic activities and discussions as if I am not in the room. So to be fair, it is not me who is doing the attacking. I have just decided that next time they either try to convert or condem me, I am not going to just sit quiet and take it. If it is them that take the initiative, I don't see how they can justify "shunning" me. Still reason is not reason with people who can not reason.
• 

  Black Sheep

  Have a look at the suggestion I just made here.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/179906/1/Help-needed-How-to-debate-a-knowledgeable-jw-to-help-my-jw-girlfriend

  A word of warning. Whatever subject you tackle them on, make sure that you know what their answer is likely to be before you ask your question.

  I made the mistake of tackling them when I was unprepared. It backfires. It will be much harder for me to get my family out now. All of the advice I give is lessons from my mistakes, not my successes.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  artemis.design

  Hi Chris

  Thanks for that link. I have just read all of that other post. You give some very good advise. If I asked that question though, they would know that it was not a question that I came up with. I know that nebuchadeser or whatever his name is was a Babalonian king, and that 607 bc was an important date, but that is as far as I get on that topic. I need to start with something much, much simpler, otherwise, as you say, it will backfire.
• 

  artemis.design

  Chris: A word of warning. Whatever subject you tackle them on, make sure that you know what their answer is likely to be before you ask your question.

  So maybe I should stick to my original question which was a genuine one. How do they explain that humans have only been around for 6000 years?

  This is going off at a tangent now. I did try going through previous posts to there was lots of gobbily gook about dates and stuff, but I could not see anything that would explained their arguement for this in simple terms.
• 

  Black Sheep

  So maybe I should stick to my original question which was a genuine one. How do they explain that humans have only been around for 6000 years?

  You have to know THEIR answer to that question before you ask it.

  If you don't know their answer, they will just use your question as an excuse to lead you into a subject that they are comfortable with.

  BTW, Their answer is, "The Bible says so and the Bible is 'written by God'.". Beat that, you nasty heathen, you.

  You can circumvent this situation by not asking the question.

  A question might be important to you, but that is besides the point. You must only ask questions that are important to them. Get it wrong and you lose your ability to ask questions at all. Do not lose your 'drifted-born-in' status lightly. It is a blessing few of us have. Treasure it.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  Black Sheep

  This is going off at a tangent now. I did try going through previous posts to there was lots of gobbily gook about dates and stuff, but I could not see anything that would explained their arguement for this in simple terms.

  Do you have a Watchtower CD?

  Do your parents have a Watchtower CD?

  The idea is for you to not have to know every answer to every bit of their gobbledegook. You just have to ask the question and keep them on topic. They have to sort through all of their gobbledegook to find out that THEY don't have a sensible answer for YOUR question.

  Their tactic will be to try and divert you from the real issue with their gobbledegook. We just need to teach you how to ignor their gobbledegook and steer them back to YOUR question. It can be done. Just don't do anything until you are completely prepared for everything that they will throw at you, and have a plan for if you get stuck.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  wobble

  Hi Artemis,

  And big BIG welcome !

  Be prepared for the personal attack ,rather than answering your concerns they will attack you, I had the "who are you to question ........ " etc.

  It pays to be humble and ask their opinion,"Could you please explain,from the bible ,how blood fractions are O.K , I don't understand "

  "Could you please explain,from the bible,how and why Jesus chose Rutherford and the Bible Students in 1919?"

  I also had, "You only get this stuff off the internet" answer, "if it is true,it dosn't matter if I got it from Adolf Hitler,it is still true"

  Also do NOT use the word Apostate about yourself,if they start thinking of you in that way it will give them an excuse to shut you out.

  A great facility on this site is the massive archive,available via the search button,loads of great points there to use.

  Love

  Wobble
• 

  WTWizard

  If you were not baptized, you are not technically a witless--and cannot be disfellowshipped as such. However, they can mark you as bad association, especially if you are teaching the real truth about the religion. And, I would expect the effect to be pretty much the same.