Lack of education does not = stupid.

by bluecanary 37 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  TheOldHippie

  "Of course not, but there is more to it than that. As a general rule, well-educated people are not likely to become Jehovah's Witnesses, while lesser educated people are."....."The WTS discourages a higher education for a reason not specifically related to an objection to one's learning more, but to one's ability to learn to THINK more after become educated."

  Well said. I am one of the well-educated JWs, embracing the teachings while at the University. And I think your last sentence sums up the WT thoughts very well. No matter what subject you study at the University (well, almost, any way), you are learning how to learn, to think, to separate, to evaluate. In a way, it is unimportant what subject you are studying, because the main factor is HOW to. At a convention, a brother with a Master in astronomy was interviewed, and when talking about his field of study, the audience laughed for the reason they found it a typical example of "non-bread-winning-studies", but the brother calmly replied that "there is nothing wrong with a good and solid basic education and especially so in how to study".

  For my part, I have at times cursed my intelligence (if you pardon my expression, not trying to elevate myself here!) and ability to read, study, learn etc. - because in a way it has brought me almost only trouble as to the JW. I have seen easy argumentation, I have seen non-responses where others have seen responses, I have seen reasons for asking questions where others have seen none, I have seen strange sentences and shallow arguments in the literature, I have met the "wait and see" arguments way too often, I have fought with inner demons and questions for years and years because of unanswerable questions, I have seen points in the literature saying exactly the opposite of what is stated at other places - I see things that are definitely not healthy if you are to remain a whole-hearted JW. I wish I were simple, "stupid", average, or living during the Medieval Ages when the Universe was simple and there was a sphere at the edges of the Earth where you could stick your head out and see the huge machinery which drove the stars on the heavens, see the machinery of God.

  I am stuck with a million questions, unlike those around me. It sucks.
• 

  inbetween

  theoldhippie: I know exactly how you feel, though I dont have a university education, I always was the type of person to go deep , to understand, to comprehend things, to ask questions where others are happy with a simple answer...

  and often I wished to go back to times of ignorance, where everything is just black and white according to WTS, it is just much easier...

  plus I met highly intelligent witnesses, who may have asked the same questions (some actually did) but just shelve them to wait for Jehovah, as I did as well, ..

  one time I pushed it a bit, was not happy with a general accepted answer to an issue, and got the reply, that we just shouldnt think about it...why ? arent we supposed to keep asking (chapter one bible teach book ?)...

  at times I`m very confused, angry, depressed even, wish to never opened my eyes, and also wished to just d/a myself, ....

  but as a matter of fact, I´m stuck atm, Ihave to find my way of dealing with all this, and still hold a good conscience and find happiness...
• 

  TheOldHippie

  Makes it two of us, my friend! My thoughts exactly! Good to know there are those of exactly the same mind as oneself somewhere out there in this huge wide world of ours.
• 

  Maddie

  There are all types of people in cults; it isn't to do with lack of intelligence. Many intelligent but very idealistic people get drawn into cults, many vulnerable people too. Some want to believe because they are looking for answers to everything or are unhappy so want to believe everything will soon change. I agree with others posters that education does/can give people the ability to develop critical thinking ability, and this will enable people to leave if they are already ensnared in a cult, or better still help them not to get captured in the first place. Maddie
• 

  rebel8

  stu·pid (stoo'pid, styoo'-)
  
  1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
  2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
  3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
  4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
  5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job

  jws who still believe are stupid, according to the dictionary definition as noted above, because they repeatedly make foolish/pointless/worthless decisions in connection with their cult membership.

  Many of them happen to also be uninformed.

  Low IQ appears to be another risk factor for joining cults, according to my own observations and the observations of hundreds of others who post here. However, it obviously is not a causal factor, nor is it required for membership.

  Use of the word 'stupid' to describe cultists is factually correct.
• 

  CHILD

  A college education helps you to learn how to think critically, but it is not enough. I encountered JWs while a college sophmore. I wish I'd learned about mind control, propaganda and cults while in high school. I always thought of cults as Jim Jones' organization or David Koresh and his people. Now I recognize mind control nd propaganda in different religions, government and social organizations.

  My daughter wants to join a sorority and my father ( non JW, ex Mason) and I are trying to dissuade her. He's warned her of the danger of trying to fit into a group and the danger of being a follower.
• 

  bluecanary

  Use of the word 'stupid' to describe cultists is factually correct.

  You can't just whip out a dictionary and think you're going to win an argument with it!

  (Can you believe someone on another message board told me that once?)

  Seriously, I see your point. Based on the definition, it is tecnincally accurate. I would ask then, is it a helpful description? For those who have gotten out, we see the light, we don't need to feel any worse for having made poor decisions in the past. We know it, without the need for some smart alec on a message board to taunt us with it.

  For those still in, it will only alienate them from listening to useful information and feed their persecution complex.

  I told a friend last night about being in a cult. He said anyone who would accept a cult is a moron. If someone tried to tell him about some guy who was raised from the dead, his response would be "Zombie!" I didn't get to talk to him more after that, but I would have pointed out how he may be cynical about religious or mystical claims, but how could he be sure he would discern the difference between a legitmate business and a commercial cult? Or a legitmate learning experience and an educational cult? Or a legitimate political action group and a political cult?

  For all of these, singling out a particular group and warning against them is unhelpful. With thousands of cults of different kinds actively recruiting members, it's ridiculous to expect to learn about every one. And unnecessary. Learning about unethical recruiting methods would help immensely. There's no need for instructors to even focus on religious cults.
• 

  rebel8

  Smart alecs' posts have no affect upon my self esteem.

  I have no problem saying my time in the cult was stupid. It was. I don't go around flinging the word on others though.

  I don't agree with the author's suggestion that cults should be allowed on campus. Prevention is best done via environmental strategies--changing the environment, not the person.

  That is why we have special outlets in bathrooms that prevent electrocution, rather than telling people not to use the blow dryer when the sink is full.

  That is why we have air bags rather than telling people to drive safely.

  That is why we have laws against kids possessing alcohol rather than just telling them not to drink.

  There are many examples of this--it's much more effective than telling people not to do it. They don't listen.

  Private college campuses are free to set policy as to what happens on their property. They're not impinging upon anyone's freedom of religion by not lending their grounds for the practice of it.
• 

  bluecanary

  I absolutely agree that individual colleges should have the say of what they allow on their campus. It worries me when the government makes blanket rules. I do think that people have the right to make poor decisions. They also have the right to make informed decisions. Smoking/driving without a seatbelt/eating bacon/riding a motorcycle may be risky behaviors and have the possiblity of shortening my life. I want to know the risks. But it is my right to take the risks if I so choose.
• 

  rebel8

  Sure, you can choose.

  And as a taxpayer and policyholder, you exercising that choice means I have no right to decline to fund the consequences of your choice.

  As a child of a dubbie, I had no right to decline to be parented by a nutjob who put my life and mental health in danger.