Wars, Famine, Lawlessness, Disobedient Children, Never Ending Sign For End Of the World?

by frankiespeakin 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  frankiespeakin

  When one reads the bible and what it says about the end of the world as a sign that it is very close, and the fact that it can be applied to every generation. Things such as earthquakes, human nature, war between ruling institutions, famine, even ridicule from nonbelievers is used by some books in the bible as the evidence for belief in the end of the world and such ridicule is taken as a fulfillment sign that the end will come. Well if that is a proof that the end will come then what about all those centuries where bible readers were saying the end is near did it come for their generations? and if not would it not vindicate the ridiculars, instead of the ridiculed?

  I mean as far as bible prophecies go, there is not a lot of satisfactory evidence to single out any time period as very specific for the end to come,,instead just relatively speaking,, common things,, that have been found in every generation since such prophecies where given. Have any Bible believers ever tackled that paradox? Why would God give as a sign something that can't single out any generation? Not very impressive if you ask me and is it really the wise thing to do namely use the Bible's prophecy as a road map to plan one's life around. I would think a better track record, than the one the bible offers with it many unfulfilled predictions to be a wiser qualification if one is going to live ones life by it's laws or recommendations.
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  JeffT

  It has been addressed by a number of serious Bible scholars (not the ones that busy writing mass market paperbacks). For example this is how "The Message" translates part of Matthew 24:

  4-8Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, 'I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people. When reports come in of wars and rumored wars, keep your head and don't panic. This is routine history; this is no sign of the end.

  In this interpretation, what is commonly termed "signs of the end" is in fact, the exact opposite. The above sounds to me like an excellent description of the WTBS!

  I can't back the following up with any scholarly quotes, but it has been one of my beliefs for a long time that some parts of the Bible are there to get us to ask the questions, not to provide the answers for us.
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  frankiespeakin

  Jeff,

  Where did you get that translation looks very modern, it is amazing what a few modern touch ups can do for an ancient writing. Which also highlights the fact of how different translations can change meanings of ancient writings, to one more in line with what has occured thru out history.
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  JeffT

  Here is a really good website with a number of different translations.

  http://www.biblegateway.com/

  Here's a good article on The Message translation

  http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=65

  I don't have my copy in front of me, but one of the things he says in the intro is that the Koine Greek the NT writers used, was everyday language. It's the sort of language you would use writing a note to a friend. I've found it very useful in trying to grasp the flavor of what the writers were trying to say.
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  jamiebowers

  It has been addressed by a number of serious Bible scholars (not the ones that busy writing mass market paperbacks). For example this is how "The Message" translates part of Matthew 24:

  4-8Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, 'I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people. When reports come in of wars and rumored wars, keep your head and don't panic. This is routine history; this is no sign of the end.

  In this interpretation, what is commonly termed "signs of the end" is in fact, the exact opposite. The above sounds to me like an excellent description of the WTBS!

  I can't back the following up with any scholarly quotes, but it has been one of my beliefs for a long time that some parts of the Bible are there to get us to ask the questions, not to provide the answers for us.

  Jeff, that's what I came up with. So, in other words, Jesus was saying that life will be same old, same old when the end comes.
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  PSacramento

  Ah dude,

  The world has been going to hell in a handbaskest for ages !

  Seriously, look at the times we live in, people are living to over 100, some horrid diseases have been cured or are preventable, I don't recall the last time I had to woory about a band of maurading murderes and rapists coming over the mountains.

  They can do open heart surgury on fetus to save it, we live in a time of relative peaces compared to the other times in the history of the world, even with all the wars going on, our emergency response teams save 100' even 1000's of lives when there are natural disaters, compared to what would happen centuries even decades ago.

  We are FAR from perfect and VERY FAR from paradise, but in our haste to see what is wrong, let us NEVER forget to see what is right.
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  steve2

  The historical record shows that, when the Black Plague decimated populations throughout Europe in the 14th Century, many end-times religious groups started up proclaiming the plague was God's punishment upon an evil world and that the end of the world was near. Meanwhile, five and a bit centuries later, the world splutters on...and new "evidence" is produced "proving" we're in the last days.

  More wolf-crying by religious cry-babies. Excuse me if I stifle a yawn.
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  PSacramento

  I never have issue with people pointing out what needs fixing, but lets be honest with ourselves when we say "its the worse its ever been", compared to what?

  The dark ages?

  The fall of the roman empire?

  The Hun Invasions?

  The various palgues?

  Viking bezerkers? Spanish conquistadores commiting genocide with a sneeze?
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  Doug Mason

  A straightforward reading in any version of Matt 24:1-8 tells us:

  1. The context is the destruction of the Temple, which was expected by the Jews to mark the end of the Age and the ushering in of the Messiah in great glory. At the time of the disciples, a king's arrival (parousia) to a region required great preparation, and was accompanied with great pomp and ceremony. Even special coins were minted. Even as late as Acts 1:6, the disciples were still thinking in those terms, and you can see Jesus' reply to their question (Acts 1:7 - "it is not for you to know the times or dates").
  2. At Matthew 24 (and parallels in Mark and Luke), the first thing Jesus says is: "watch out for deceivers".
  3. When Jesus spoke of wars, he did not speak about their frequency, size, number of casualties, and so forth, just that wars would exist because nations would fight. (Not even Russell used wars as a sign of the End).

  If things are so bad today, at what other time in history would people prefer to have lived?
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  White Dove

  How can you watch for something if no one knows the day or the hour? Why give signs of the last days when you're not supposed to know? No one can really be ready for a thief in the night beyond locking doors and windows with deadbolts.