Debunking the WTS view of apostasy

by Awakened at Gilead 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    The problem that we have when discussing "apostasy" and "apostates" is twofold:

    1 Who can lay claim to being the true inheritors of the ancient Jewish tradition that is encompassed in the OT?

    2 Does the word "apostate" as understood in the the stylized patois of the Watchtower, actually occur in the OT? [There is no problem about it occurring in the NT because we know it occurs twice]

    1 To suggest, as the Watchtower leadership suggests, that they and they alone can singularly wrap themselves around the mantle of the OT is not just sheer arrogance, but it spills over into the ancient Greek concept of "hubris", defined in their vocabulary as: "wanton arrogance that leads to violence against opposers, an insufferable arrogance accrued from claims to divine exclusivity" [paraphrased from Liddell and Scott Lexicon] In other words, anyone making claims of such insularity is dangerously bordering on blasphemy.

    To make these claims solely on the basis of their use of the tri-syllabic mongrelized word "jehovah" which has an etymology that is neither Hebrew nor English, is puerile to say the least, especially when you consider the fact that there are several Sacred Name sects out there, most of whom are more closely linked to the OT system than the Watchtower, and whose use of Yahweh is more accurate than anything the Watchtower can match.

    The Watchtower system is a proto-fascist ideal which replaces the freedom that the individual has with God, with a centrally controlled organizationally infused dynamic that supposedly serves the interests of all. Such an imperialism may be regarded as benevolent by the majority of the more somnolent of the movement, but nevertheless it is still an imposition, a manifestation of raw power. Dissenting from such systematized and institutionalized piety, is regarded as apostasy only by those cocooned in the veiled facade of Watchtower doctrinal probity.

    It must also be remembered that the Watchtower leadership expresses its authority in a modern Americanized jargon with its metaphors derived from the American pop culture of the 1960s, and not from OT idiom. No Sabbath is observed, no tithes paid, and no festivals observed, all part of the warp and woof of OT cultural idiom. The Watchtower links to the OT, then, are tenuous, at best. So any "apostate" from the OT system must be a subject of interpretation, not of pre-cognitive functional subjectivity.

    2 Should the word "apostate" or "apostasy" occur in the OT? The Watchtower wunderkind, Freddy Franz, whose legacy, the NW "T" is constantly being defended by his successors, certainly thought so. He introduced it 16 times in his "translation" of the OT. All these occurrences are from the Heb word "hho'neph" and its cognates. The word is clearly defined by Strong, Gesenius, and BDB as: Impiety, godlessness.

    The NIV consistently translates this word as: "Ungodliness" as does the NASB. The NLT has the same.

    As one can see, the use of "apostasy" in the OT, so useful to facilitating the Watchtower agenda of self-righteous posturing is entirely bogus. An "apostate" is one who has abandoned a certain regimentation which either he or his peers once regarded as "truth", while the OT word is referring to those who never had any spiritual dimension in their lives in the first place and who cared nothing about it anyway.

    It is matter of scholarly debate whether the Heb vocabulary, as used in the OT had a word for "apostasy". The NASB for instance uses the word "apostasy" four times in the OT to translate the Heb "Meshubah" the meaning of which is interpretive. It can mean "faithlessness" or a"a turning away" etc, as is found at Jer 8:5. NIV has "turned away" and the NW "T" has "unfaithful" To confuse matters, Greek speaking Jews who translated the OT into the Greek LXX, used the word "apostrepso" which can mean "to return" as to an original fold, or lit, as Adam "returned" to dust. The debate continues.

    The Watchtower appropriation of this word to refer to those who dissent from their structural authorization, is at least pretentious, if not, utterly mad.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    My final respone to you Reniaa, and then I will no longer waste any time on the swine. Read slowly and carefully, perhaps you will understand, perhaps not.

    Our of love and respect for JWs, JW supporters, and JW wannabes who could never fit into the caste system and make it as a JW (like yourself)...I (being the apostate of the WT and knowing it to be a sham) will withdraw and disfellowship myself from you. I know the answers to any issues you bring out, there is no problem there. At the same time I see no further reason to type out detailed answers to someone who does not want to hear, or is unable to accept. So I leave you to the cult that obviously does not make you happy and fulfill you (otherwise why would you be here). I, like many others here see right thru you. Answers such as you are here to protect a curious person who may stumble onto this site and be 'deceived' are obvious nonsense, as is the rest of what you say. So any, have fun, spout your JW ideologies here...and please, please continue to show the WT to be the cult it is.

    Adios.

  • chickpea
    chickpea

    apostate
    1340, "one who forsakes his religion or faith," from L.L. apostata, from Gk. apostasia "defection, desertion, rebellion," from apostenai "to defect," lit. "to stand off," from apo- "away from" (see apo-) + stenai "to stand." Used in non-religious situations (politics, etc.) from 1362 (etymonline.com)

    nice job awakened.... regardless of the rhetoric,
    apostate is simply a label that declares for
    all to know that SOMEONE CHANGED THEIR MIND!!!!

    that can happen when one finds out that they
    have been fed a steady diet of lies, distortions
    and half-truths by the leaders of a cultish religion
    that assured one the teachings were totally faithful
    and true ....

    "stand off from"? in regards to WTS...
    more like ya better run like hell!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I loved your video. Anyone who goes beyond the Bible by agreeing with WTS on what apostasy is, must then accept the full definition in modern terms rather than the Bible usage.

    If one agrees that those who leave WT teachings is apostate, then anyone who leaves a former belief is apostate.

    Most JW's that were not born into the religion were apostate when they left Catholicism, atheism, Protestantism, Buddhism, etc.

    All JW's are apostate when they change their beliefs whenever WT writes an article telling them to change their beliefs. All of them.

    You cannot have it both ways. "You who leave us are the only apostates." Either we left "the truth" and so did they when WT changed it, or we never had the truth and just changed our beliefs. Besides, everyone is supposed to grow to spiritual maturity and better develop their own beliefs. I never abandoned my JW beliefs, I grew beyond them.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    ... another hard-to-accept set of facts for R to ignore.

  • caliber
    caliber

    another hard-to-accept set of facts for R to ignore
    . She must protect every teaching or understanding because

    in the back of her mind IMO she realizes like it was for us... once one domino falls, there no stopping them all

    of them will fall.

    End of the hijack & baiting for the thousandth time .. back to Lances excellent video.

    As usual you were clear, simple and unassuming.. just presented calm well thought out facts

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Ggod job lance. You were so smooth and logically systematic. You did this using only WT lit, accepting all WT interpreations relative to the topic and showed it could not possibly be what they claim.

  • the research lady
    the research lady

    Great video Lance. Just did some research on the words in NWT concordance. Apostasy is found 5 times-3 in the O.T. 2 in the N.T. Apostate 10 times. Apostates 3 times and apostatizing 1 time.In Strong's concordance 1890 edition there are no such words. Zondervan's concordance to the NASB the word apostacies occurs three times. Apostasy-3 times. Apostate just once. In just one scripture found in Job 27:8 the NWT uses the word apostate where other versions use different words. For example, King James in this scripture uses the word "hypocrite". Moffit uses the word "godless". Rotherham uses "impious". and the NIV uses the word "godless". This is just one example of the devious means the Watchower organization uses to show the hatred they have for all those who no longer follow their dangerous and destructive cult. Thank you for sharing this video with us.

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney

    Nice job!

    A big flaw in JW thinking is that they extend their apostate logic to non-JWs who are critical of the JW faith. For all intents and purposes, a book critical of JWs is apostate regardless of whether it's written by a former JW or a Southern Baptists who has never stepped foot inside of a kingdom hall. Your average JW would not want to even touch that book for fear of the dreaded demons. The former adherent of "the truth" who left the faith versus your never-has-been-a-JW distinction is really irrelevant.

    While I can see how JWs are able to twist the scriptures to support their views on apostacy in regards to former members (even though I disagree with that stand), there's absolutely nothing to support the view that they should reject ANY material that is critical of their religion, but that's how their teachings work in practice. From that one can see that their aim in villifying "apostates" isn't to follow scriptural precepts, but to prevent critical thinking on the part of their members.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Research Lady, Is there a verse in Psalms or Proverbs where the NWT insert the word apostate? The verse says something like "An apostate by his words brings down his brother.." whereas it should say reviler? Can you find this for me?

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