Faith necessary to please God is a great mind control trick to encourage gullibility (page 2)

loosie

This is not about "blind faith", hardly, we don't see gravity, but it is there.

No you can't see gravity or the wind but you can see the the results of gravity and the wind.

What results can you see of god? I see a world full of people who like to start wars. I see children starving and dying. I see lots of violence. And people who have a need to control other people.

So what does that tell me about god: you can pick any one of the 5 results below.

1) he is dead

2) he never existed

3) he is alseep

4) humans made god in their image

5) he just doesn't care

PSacramento

loosie,

you can certianly choose to focus on that, yes, or you can see what he does through us:

Habitat for humanity

Doctors without borders

Social groups that help those in need

Christian groups helping rape victims, homeless shelters, food and medicne for those that have nothing, etc, etc.

Lots of bad yes, but lots of good too.

As most of us here have. If there is one thing that's abundantly clear by scripture, it's this: God doesn't need to give any explanation for anything. He requires faith, demands it even. And, despite supposedly offering abundant proof for his existence and will throughout scripture, he no longer has any interest in doing so nowadays. His believers have since used faulty reasoning to show that faith is not what it is. With such a clean definition offered in the Bible, it's mind-numbing that people actually fool themselves into believing that faith is NOT the absence of questioning. Questions seek evidence of fact. Faith is a means to maintain belief in the absence of evidence.

Unless, of course, faith to you just means some kind of fuzzy, good feeling you get when you think of the Supreme Being actually caring about you. In that case, your idea of faith is completely contrary to what the Bible says and the actual definition.

PSacramento

daniel-p,

If you chosoe to believe it that way, that is your perogative.

One can argue that there are many signs if one choose to see them, but I don't think either one of us would be able to convince the other, so we agree to disagree.

:)

frankiespeakin

Psacr,

I am not sure what the author of Hebrews had in mind when hw wrote that passahe, or any passage, even the authorship of Hebrews is in question, but if we are to believe that it was Paul, well, Paul had no faith in Jesus untill he was shown Jesus and his faith came from, what you may call evidence ( he saw and heard Jesus with his own eyes and ears, being blinde din the process).

You know that opens up the question about Paul's visions and were they a produce of the god of the bibles spirit or epileptic seizures that some of the medical profession have postulated. I'm in favor of the idea that his visions may have had this later cause seems much more reasonable since Paul's visionary Christ is so much different than the 4 gospels.

frankiespeakin

I think one of the very important underlying reasons why the bible has lasted so long as a influence is that it used clever literary device that would serve the interest of those in power such being obedient to the secular powers, pay your taxes, you can have slaves, fighting in wars that are on god's side,, and similar ideas such as these seemed to favor its survival and not the protective force of god's spirit guiding it survival. These are all my opinions,,and but I think that's what the facts of history are showing.

frankiespeakin

So while Hebrews says you need faith in order to please god what does that imply with regards that don't believe? One of the contradictory qualities of god? I mean how can he be a god of love if he holds such a standard for how he treats people. How would we become imitators of god and be loving at the same time if we treated our neighbors that way,, and feel if they don't believe us we will treat them as lesser people in some way so they could feel our displeasure?

I would have to think god to be much more merciful than the writers of Hebrews are insinuating by there statements of faith's importance in bringing god's favor.

I mean how would it be loving if I required even my far away nieghbors who never even herd of me to beleive in me or I will act different towards them than someone who beleives in me. And does not Hebrews take into account that their are people living somewhere that don't beleive and god could careless because it he is a god of love it shouldn't be about his glory but what is best for the most concerned.

Narkissos

I think it really works both ways, depending on who is calling for "faith" -- and in which circumstances.

"Faith" talk by an established authority reinforces obedience and helps mind and behaviour control for sure. But when the "slaves" pick up the motto of "faith" (even from their "masters") it can become a powerful weapon for change (subversion, insurrection, revolution etc.). And when the slaves become the masters (some of them more than others of course) it becomes a tool of control again.

I think both perspectives (and antagonistic dynamics) can be found in the NT. Sometimes "faith" is the courage to "get up and walk," trust the best of yourself (even if you call it "God") and break free from fear, submission, etc. The "courage to be" as Tillich put it. Sometimes it's rather "obey and wait on the Lord". Again it depends how the speakers and hearers understand themselves -- as an oppressed minority or an "institution," or a mix of both.

In the loosely Platonic system of Hebrews "faith" is actually a kind of knowledge -- of the invisible and eternal; but it is strongly linked with courage and daring (cf. 10:38f, and the examples of faith in chapter 11 which are also examples of courage). The author gives one of the best definitions of freedom ever in 2:16 imo: Christ coming to "free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of death".

frankiespeakin

Nark,

In the loosely Platonic system of Hebrews "faith" is actually a kind of knowledge -- of the invisible and eternal; but it is strongly linked with courage and daring (cf. 10:38f, and the examples of faith in chapter 11 which are also examples of courage). The author gives one of the best definitions of freedom ever in 2:16 imo: Christ coming to "free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of death".

But while it may refer to fear of death be it by the state, master, or just ones previous religious belief that caused that fear. What did it really offer except a man made idea of limited and imaginary freedom.

Faith necessary to please God is a great mind control trick to encourage gullibility

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